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talk to the frog / General / Has Lamisil AT Continous Spray been discontinued?
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Sandy_Bear
Member
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1842 posts

# Posted: 28 Apr 2012 06:10


Has Lamisil been discontinued? The kind that used to treat Chytrid

k412
Member
1001 posts
1001 posts

# Posted: 28 Apr 2012 17:16


I am helping someone out with a tinc and they can only find the pump on amazon.


Nature has no mercy, people have the option.
[img]http://sigheadz.com/yeti_smf/gallery/1_26_09_09_9_38_26.png[/img]
Sandy_Bear
Member
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1842 posts

# Posted: 28 Apr 2012 19:41


So, it's true then? It's been pulled/sold out at places like Walmart, Kmart, and pharmacies... That is most unfortunate.

Nebuchadnezza
Member
569 posts
569 posts

# Posted: 29 Apr 2012 04:23


Are you looking for the spray?


I just can't find the words.
Sandy_Bear
Member
1842 posts
1842 posts

# Posted: 29 Apr 2012 06:02


I live in Canada, so I can't just go to the store and pick it up OTC. I either have to get my vet/doctor to write me a prescription for it, or I have to make a special trip across the border to get some.
What I have for spray is almost out, and I'm freaking out a bit and looking into alternative methods and where I could get testing done, etc...

But, yeah, I am looking for some spray. The Lamisil website doesn't even advertise it anymore, the only stuff available on Ebay comes from the UK in REALLY tiny bottles.
A coworker of mine is going across the border in a few weeks and has offered to pick some up for me, and I didn't know if I should bother to get her to look if it is going to be impossible to find.

Nebuchadnezza
Member
569 posts
569 posts

# Posted: 29 Apr 2012 11:49 · Edited by: Nebuchadnezza


I have a few spray bottles left. I heard that they won't let lamisil enter canada without a prescription.


I just can't find the words.
Sandy_Bear
Member
1842 posts
1842 posts

# Posted: 29 Apr 2012 14:03


I plan on going to the pharmacy this week and asking if it has been discontinued in Canada as well. If it has, then I will ask my vet if I can submit skin swab samples to be sent out for PCR testing, or if they can do testing, or if they know anywhere locally I can drop samples off to be tested, or what my other treatment options are.

meyers kristina
Member
1484 posts
1484 posts

# Posted: 29 Apr 2012 18:19


Sandy, you can send a swab yourself if it can be sent via mail to a US lab? once there it is a 24 hr turnaround assuming that it is not positive and they run more testing to make sure. I am not there, I just use them as my source.

Unfortunately there seems to be an increase in chytrid and ranavirus amongst breeders and one should test all incoming and I believe it is reasonable to test once a yr ( especially if sending any out/breeding) and to always bleach any frog water, no matter a test or not, before it hits a sewer for the environment. You can hit two birds with one stone? It is 20.00 per test I believe. Well worth it when it comes to the health of your QT collection vs your established.

There are also many labs, one available for a higher cost. this one uses a DRY swab I am talking about, and no special packaging except a new ziplock or vacutainer better yet. I prefer the vacutainers myself to make sure things are sent safely, but a closed double ziplock will do. a clean swab, never in frog contact ( i use sterile right out of the package, but I do realize not everyone has the resources for that) so any swab will do. The DNA is either there or not. You could email, very personable. I think it should be discussed how to properly swab a frog as well for the best results. A positive is a positive but a neg is only just that rendering another IMO if neg before hitting your established collection. I wouldn't think any transit time if sent 3-5 day etc would have any effect. I think the only effect, is you having to wait for it to get there. test results are emailed and any positives I believe would be called so you can keep your collection safe as well. Worth contacting.


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Sandy_Bear
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# Posted: 29 Apr 2012 18:55


I've watched a few videos on how to swab the frogs, there were some posted on Amphibian Ark, and some on YouTube.

I'm not sure where to get the swabs from though. If regular "q-tip" type cotton swabs are fine, or if I need something more specific.
Do you think I could buy other types of swabs from a pharmacy, or my vet?

I would much rather do testing then the whole bathing procedure if it can be avoided, but I haven't looked much into that yet, and getting them all tested yearly is a really good idea.

Kristina, how many times would you get new frogs tested when you first get them and they are in quarantine? Once? Twice? Three times? How much time between the tests?
And when would you normally test the new animals? The day you get them? A week after getting them?

I found a pretty good article, "A manual for control of infectious diseases in amphibian survival assurance colonies and reintroduction programs". It's 200+ pages and I printed that off last night. I think I got it off of the Amphibian Ark website, and I think it was put out by San Diego Zoo. It talks a lot about Chytrid and Rana Virus.

I would prefer to find a lab in Canada if I could. I wouldn't want the swabs to get stuck at the border.

meyers kristina
Member
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1484 posts

# Posted: 29 Apr 2012 19:43 · Edited by: meyers kristina


Quote

I've watched a few videos on how to swab the frogs, there were some posted on Amphibian Ark, and some on YouTube.

Good, yep make sure to swab well is all and it works out to your advantage and the frogs.
I'm not sure where to get the swabs from though. If regular "q-tip" type cotton swabs are fine, or if I need something more specific.
Do you think I could buy other types of swabs from a pharmacy, or my vet?


A vet/pharmacy should be willing to supply some swabs free IME, and I even get tubes free if needed. Everyone is different. I know the lab I use will send swabs and even tubes if you want for a small fee, now in your neck of the woods it might be slow mail if needed, but you can ask if q-tips are fine. I am sure if no contact with any frogs, the cosmetic more hard-pressed would be sufficient ( I can find a link and maybe even a place to buy the sterile ones online in your area) , but to make sure, I'd ask if you want to try and contact the lab I use. I can't speak on their behalf, but they do wonders! I am sure your ears BTW don't have frog DNA
I would much rather do testing then the whole bathing procedure if it can be avoided, but I haven't looked much into that yet, and getting them all tested yearly is a really good idea.

Thank you, i think so too.

Kristina, how many times would you get new frogs tested when you first get them and they are in quarantine? Once? Twice? Three times? How much time between the tests?

Depends what we are talking about. If we are talking the highly deadly to the frog ones that would warrant serious concern, like chytrid and ranavirus , IMO it is good to test twice. The reason I say twice, is simply if you got a negative, I feel a follow-up at that price is warranted to make another neg hopefully. Do the bio-film as well on the second try as you can test that once the frog/s have left enough in environment on second try as well as swabbing with the same swab. If you have a positive, well I'd be so sorry to hear it. Truly would If you got a positive the first time, you'd have to decide from there and if you need to, consult a vet. As for time in between those tests 1-2 weeks (preferably 2 if no symptoms), I'd hate to have a frog sick wait too long, so that bio-film if the first was neg has a chance to build up for that second test however, especially if all is normal acting( eating, activity, bold or not, no lesions, etc etc.) .
And when would you normally test the new animals? The day you get them? A week after getting them?
As long as they are in an area not inhabited by other frogs and using proper husbandry, IMO asap at the earliest convenience. Usually a new environment reveals the true colors of a frog. If you got a negative, it'd be best to do another however after a week and preferably two or so to test that bio-film too that has increased. An infected frog will leave behind more DNA to be sampled by then I'd imagine. I am no pathologist, but I'd do a follow-up again during QT to make sure it is indeed negative. A positive at the lab I use is conclusive. You have to just make sure you swab well. My hope is you get both negatives and once QT is over and no issues, I feel then it is safe and it is all how you feel. Some recommend 30 days, I recommend at least that, longer away from frogs, and even servicing other frogs on opposite days or having another help. It isn't worth the risk. If you have tadpoles or froglets that require daily feeding, by all means have someone help on those days or do them first and service the new acquisition last at the least. JMHO

I found a pretty good article, "A manual for control of infectious diseases in amphibian survival assurance colonies and reintroduction programs". It's 200+ pages and I printed that off last night. I think I got it off of the Amphibian Ark website, and I think it was put out by San Diego Zoo. It talks a lot about Chytrid and Rana Virus.

I would prefer to find a lab in Canada if I could. I wouldn't want the swabs to get stuck at the border.


Doubt a letter style envelope would get stuck at border, not sure, I'd ask. It is only one q-tip if only doing one sample and you can use the same q-tip for both tests BTW at the lab I use. Each test is 2o $ but it saves the hassle of swabbing again for the same submission. If I come across a Lab up there, I will shoot it your way, ok? I can only vouch for the ones I have used and understand your concern. See if I stumble across anything



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Sandy_Bear
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# Posted: 29 Apr 2012 23:03


Do you have the contact information to get a hold of the lab that you use? I would be interested in checking them out, especially if I can't find a lab here that is familiar with the procedure, or if they are ridiculously over priced

I am sure your ears BTW don't have frog DNA
Lol, I would buy a fresh box just for this purpose. I will probably check out ebay as well to see if I can get the right kind swabs. You can get a lot of neat and weird stuff on ebay.

Are you on Face Book at all?

Thank you so much for all the advice Kristina

Sandy_Bear
Member
1842 posts
1842 posts

# Posted: 30 Apr 2012 01:10


Do these look right?

DNA Swabs

Cotton Swabs with Wooden Handles

I emailed Understory Enterprises today (large dart frog breeder in Canada), and according to them, they do not know of any laboratories in Canada that are doing Chytrid Fungus testing.
They suggested Pisces Molecular, is that the one you use?

FwoGiZ
Member
1392 posts
1392 posts

# Posted: 30 Apr 2012 01:24


I picked another bottle a few weeks ago from my pharmacist... I guess they still have leftovers... dunno how long but I am stacking these bottles :P
I don't use it preventively tho...


[IMG]http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/4750/mybanner48aa3eb76b8e8pi4.jpg[/IMG]
I've had this spring peeper for over 4 years..!
Sandy_Bear
Member
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1842 posts

# Posted: 30 Apr 2012 02:10


I don't use it preventively tho...
I do, my collection is quite large, and I don't want to take any chances. Lamisil only lasts so long before it expires

meyers kristina
Member
1484 posts
1484 posts

# Posted: 30 Apr 2012 09:29 · Edited by: meyers kristina


There is no 100% treatment and IMHO it isn't worth it. Pisces is great, however the lab I use is competitively priced and does other tests like using the swab for both ranavirus and chytrid. i'll look for a lab. I use vetdna.com via real-time pcr I believe it is, and on dry swabs. first link looked great and it just isn't worth any risk. Kate is the person you will want to speak to. if the tubes have no media, it'll work. you want the swabs ideally to be less absorbent. they look good and like the ones i use, only mine are wooden and sealed with swab end. As long as no other frog items touched, will do the job


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Sandy_Bear
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2012 16:11 · Edited by: Sandy_Bear


Kristina, I haven't looked too much into how Ranavirus works yet (but I will), now in a community tank (species specific obviously) I know that if one frog has Chytrid, all the frogs will have Chytrid.
Does Ranavirus work the same?
How long does it take for all the other frogs to get infected with it?
Should I test every frog in the community tank, or just one?

Thank you so much for the like to that website. I really like the look of it
They test for a lot of things, including crypto, I like that they list all the things they test for. I keep reptiles as well.



Oh, and what is your chemical of choice (god forbid) one of your frogs was tested positive for chytrid?

meyers kristina
Member
1484 posts
1484 posts

# Posted: 1 May 2012 03:43


You are testing me huh? LOL!

Yes they are a very reputable known lab. They offer many testings and I can't say enough positive things, because they are wonderful! Very accurate and very sensitive and anything neg you can decide if enough bio-film has been built up to test or not. But QT and test is what I would say. With all the stuff not good in this hobby now, my main focus is conservation and health, so I am testing anything coming in as an added QT measure, trust me, nothing barely comes in anymore, and when it does, I am selective because I would rather produce healthy frogs than look only at the $. Now , that isn't to say you can't do both, but one can't dismiss proper testing either. It goes hand in hand.

Where quality vs. quantity took a back burner I do not know.

I believe yes to both questions of: if they have been together, chances are VERY VERY high they all have it or don't. Either, or, but not in between I am sure of it. I would venture to make an educational/logical guess there. Talk to the pathologist experienced or experienced vet etc to get that info, but both are not good things at all.

Ranavirus , that's a huge chaotic mess, like any virus, has different strains and the strains that are popping up are scary. Not meaning to panic anyone, more be aware to the hobby and what is going on and to promote testing. Ranavirus can live in the environment for quite some time I hear, so worth testing and worth euthanizing TBH, that would be my choice there. It is all how you feel and how your lab/vet/or pathologist feels.

I would want to euth for both sadly.

To each their own, but without a big risk on a positive result to answer the question as best I can, I am not about to go testing out medications TBH that may hinder accurate results and risk right now, at this point. At what point would one feel safe to introduce said pos tested frogs to established collection I would ask? How is there a way to quantify the scope of such a chemical to a pos. result? Safety of said chemical? One must weigh the cons and pros themselves as to that question I think, and seek advice from a professional and qualified vet/lab/pathologist in the arena of amphibian captive care and husbandry with a vast array of medical knowledge.

DNA submitted for testing speaks volumes to me and I just would not be OK with a pos. result at this point, and can not suggest any treatment. It truly is a matter of seeking the advice of a qualified professional on that one and sorry I am not of better help.


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Sandy_Bear
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# Posted: 1 May 2012 06:02


You are testing me huh? LOL!
I am just very interested in what you have to say, I quite enjoy listening (reading) to knowledgeable passionate people in the hobby. Anything that I can learn to make me a better "pet parent" and help keep my animals safe, then I want to be able to know about it. And any good information that I learn, I want to help other people know about it as well.

I would want to euth for both sadly.
I too believe in euthanizing animals, I don't believe in letting them suffer needlessly. If it can be fixed, I do try and fix it, but it depends on how far gone the animal is.

meyers kristina
Member
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1484 posts

# Posted: 1 May 2012 12:05


TY Sandy and ditto, it would be a personal decision you could consult a vet on etc. My vet I am quite sure would tell me it'd be too late of that were the case. To me, it is much too much risk to 1. try and medicate with whatever med there is and 2. not know when or if it was effective and 3. risk is so high to any other amphibians/environment also and 4. I just don't ever want to contribute to the issue in any way also. Not a good result if that were the case, but you have no reason to believe it'd be pos. testing is so worth it. It a horrible one, global decline. Ranavirus is worse I would say. Neither is a good scenario. ;) JMHO.

if it is pets and not breeders too,maybe that would help weigh the risks too. I am sad to say, I wouldn't take the chance to answer your question.


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