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talk to the frog / Help / Mint having problems, please help
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daystorm
Member
412 posts
412 posts

# Posted: 1 Jul 2008 18:44


I have a trio of mint terribilis. The male is smaller and a little bit more on the shy side, while the females are more bold. This morning, when I looked in the tank, the male was laying down, sprawled, looking like the was dead. I took him out and placed him in a smaller enclosure with wet paper towel. Yesterday he was fine, or looked fine. The other two show no signs of illness. They were all bought at the same time.

The temps here have been fluctuating a bit, but all in the range of the terribilis, 24-27C. It drops to about 20C at night. The humidity is 85-90%.

I feed them every couple of days, and they eat crickets and flies with the occasional worm. They all hunt and eat and become alert when food is around.

I have not been around all that much, between a trip to calgary for a week and I was gone for the weekend. During the trip a friend took care of them.

Anybody have any clues what I should do? (keep in mind, today is canada day and nothing is open, the vet that I have does treat herps, but has no experience with anything as small as a dart. I have limited resources).





As you can see, he is still holding his head up, but when he walked a little and flipped over, he couldn't right himself. His back legs look just wrong.


White's tree frog: 2:0:0
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Parrotlet 2:0:0
Biewer yorkie 1:0:0
Crested gecko 2:1:0
Reed frog 1:1:0
daystorm
Member
412 posts
412 posts

# Posted: 1 Jul 2008 19:08


I just checked on the frog and he seems fine again? He is sitting up with his legs tucked under him like normal, alert and jumping again. I'm not sure what to make of this...


White's tree frog: 2:0:0
Budgie: 0:1:0
Parrotlet 2:0:0
Biewer yorkie 1:0:0
Crested gecko 2:1:0
Reed frog 1:1:0
MacinMan
Member
669 posts
669 posts

# Posted: 1 Jul 2008 19:29


I'm curious do these frogs have a tail? your picture seemingly show a tail on the frogs ? at first I thought it was a WTF with a tail!

as far as the activity? maybe he ate a bad bug or had a bit of impaction, maybe he needed water? how is he now?

also maybe he needed the smaller enclosure? I'm not familiar with that species, just asking general frog questions.

ILoveGreen
Member
4190 posts
4190 posts

# Posted: 1 Jul 2008 19:31


MacinMan that's the frogs leg not a tail


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daystorm
Member
412 posts
412 posts

# Posted: 1 Jul 2008 19:39


He seems alright now. He chased a cricket around, but I didn't see if he caught it or not. I did a little research and it looks like he may have calcium defeciency. I dust about once a week, perhaps that's not enough.


White's tree frog: 2:0:0
Budgie: 0:1:0
Parrotlet 2:0:0
Biewer yorkie 1:0:0
Crested gecko 2:1:0
Reed frog 1:1:0
daystorm
Member
412 posts
412 posts

# Posted: 1 Jul 2008 19:40


Oh, and they should just about be full grown. No tails.


White's tree frog: 2:0:0
Budgie: 0:1:0
Parrotlet 2:0:0
Biewer yorkie 1:0:0
Crested gecko 2:1:0
Reed frog 1:1:0
MacinMan
Member
669 posts
669 posts

# Posted: 1 Jul 2008 19:44


oh yes, I see the leg now it looked like a tail at first glance sorry.

Steven Busch
Member
1089 posts
1089 posts

# Posted: 2 Jul 2008 03:14


Where in the wild is the fairy that dusts with calcium? Over supplementation of calcium has the same symptoms of under supplementation


Steve Busch
Yoncalla Frog
steve@yoncallafrog.com
www.buschcustomknives.blademakers.com
www.yoncallafrog.com .......soon I hope
BIG HYDRO
Member
3666 posts
3666 posts

# Posted: 2 Jul 2008 03:18 · Edited by: BIG HYDRO


You can actually harm the frogs quicker bu over supplementing than by under supplementing them. I supplement mine about every 3-4 weeks depending on the age of the frogs.


[IMG]http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x296/BIG_HYDRO/bigrepab1-1.jpg[/IMG]
Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius, and its better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.
porkchop48
Member
1136 posts
1136 posts

# Posted: 2 Jul 2008 03:22


Over supplementing is a bad thing.
I think the mint looks fine body shape wise. Not over obese but look at darts in the wild they look much thinner then we keep them.

Daystorm - How old are your supplements?


I sometimes go to my own little world, but that's okay, they know me there
daystorm
Member
412 posts
412 posts

# Posted: 2 Jul 2008 22:21


They are a little overdue to be changed. I will be getting some new stuff tonight.

I was thinking about the oversupplementation thing when I changed the supplementing to once a week instead of every feeding. And I know mints are sensitive to vit. A. But does that explain the ceizure like symptoms?

And thanks for the support on the body size thing. That comment really irked me, we aren't here to make little golf balls. I thought my frogs were healthy body shape wise. They look like some of the mints over at the canadian dart forum I go to. This little one may be younger than the other two, or may just be a smaller frog.


White's tree frog: 2:0:0
Budgie: 0:1:0
Parrotlet 2:0:0
Biewer yorkie 1:0:0
Crested gecko 2:1:0
Reed frog 1:1:0
daystorm
Member
412 posts
412 posts

# Posted: 2 Jul 2008 22:55


Actually, I don't think its over supplementation. Everywhere I"ve read doesn't list seizures or twitching as a sign of oversupplementation. I think my dusting stuff was no good anymore, so I thought I was doing them some good, but they weren't getting anything out of it.


White's tree frog: 2:0:0
Budgie: 0:1:0
Parrotlet 2:0:0
Biewer yorkie 1:0:0
Crested gecko 2:1:0
Reed frog 1:1:0
porkchop48
Member
1136 posts
1136 posts

# Posted: 2 Jul 2008 22:59


I dust my dart once a week with the calcium and once a week vitamins.
Supplement only last about 6 months after opened.
Steve does know what he is talking about. Too much calcium is a bad thing. I would stick with the once a week for each ( well that is what I do anyways)

Just my two sense and once again I think body shape wise they look fine.


I sometimes go to my own little world, but that's okay, they know me there
daystorm
Member
412 posts
412 posts

# Posted: 2 Jul 2008 23:23


I know steve knows what he's talking about, that's why I went once a week. I will stay once a week once this whole thing blows over. I'm hoping not to loose the frog first. I'm glad he is taking an interest in this post.


White's tree frog: 2:0:0
Budgie: 0:1:0
Parrotlet 2:0:0
Biewer yorkie 1:0:0
Crested gecko 2:1:0
Reed frog 1:1:0
Steven Busch
Member
1089 posts
1089 posts

# Posted: 3 Jul 2008 00:48 · Edited by: Steven Busch


http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/00 0365.htm the link and a few excerpts.

hypercalcemia...too much calcium


Other medical conditions can also lead to hypercalcemia:

Adrenal gland failure
An inherited condition that affects the body's ability to regulate calcium (familial hypocalciuric hypercalcemia (FHH))
A type of diuretic medication called thiazides
Excess vitamin D (hypervitaminosis D) from diet or inflammatory diseases
Hyperthyroidism
Kidney failure
Massive amounts of calcium in diet (milk-alkali syndrome)
Not moving for long periods of time
Some cancerous tumors (for example, lung cancers, breast cancer


Symptoms Return to top

Abdominal:

Constipation
Nausea
Pain
Poor appetite
Vomiting
Kidney:

Flank pain
Frequent thirst
Frequent urination
Kidney stones
Muscular:

Muscle atrophy
Muscle twitches
Weakness
Psychological:

Apathy
Coma
Dementia
Depression
Irritability
Memory loss
Skeletal:

Bone pain
Bowing of the shoulders
Fractures due to disease (pathological fractures)
Loss of height
Spinal column curvature



Steve Busch
Yoncalla Frog
steve@yoncallafrog.com
www.buschcustomknives.blademakers.com
www.yoncallafrog.com .......soon I hope
theboardedwindow
Member
892 posts
892 posts

# Posted: 3 Jul 2008 15:54


Where in the wild is the fairy that dusts with calcium?

i agree with Steve... while nutritional requirements / supplementation is really still "up in the air" as far as amphibians go, we do know (simply from the physiology of small vertebrates) that they need certain elements to thrive and reproduce. the very same internal / cellular energy conversion, (both aerobic and anaerobic) which goes on inside of YOU, also goes on inside of your terribillis, or other specimen.... the fundamentals of cellular respiration are constant through-out the animal kingdom.

in my opinion most people (including Steve and myself, if i may be so bold) are more than likely over-supplementing at least to a small degree...
......certainly vs. the typical/natural amount of nutrients uptaken from a diversity of prey in the wild.

the problem is when over-supplementation becomes toxic to the specimen.... which WILL lead to kidney failure and death. take an entire bottle of multivitamins and the same could happen to you.


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