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talk to the frog / Setup / Insanely crazed theory?...Or Genius idea?...you choose
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vivariman
Member
590 posts
590 posts

# Posted: 19 Oct 2007 21:45


Ok here's the deal: Dendrobates Azureus/Dendrobates Tinctorius + Anolis =???????????? ........ In other words, I just had the idea of mixing small anoles with large dart frogs. There shouldnt be any conflicts or even interactions at all because the anoles would stay at the top of the tank and the darts at the bottom. They both need a central american Biotype, and probably even would be like this in the wild, but instead of 1 to 2 meters away, they would be 1 to 50 meters away as they would climb the trees. I would have countless hiding spots high and low and here and there. and BTW...This Viv is gonna be HUGE! GINORMOUS! COLLOSSAL! (im done talking big now)... and anyways this guy did it on his site... but had to end it because it tried to eat one of his imis, but those are a tiny frog anyways, so its probably not gonna happen with me.

http://www.poison-frogs.com/e02.html

Ok. Any suggestions or comments to rain on my parade? Any words or thoughts to brighten my spirits?

vivariman
Member
590 posts
590 posts

# Posted: 19 Oct 2007 21:47


O sorry... That link wont take you exactly were i wanted it to. Click on herp and frog on the left side (its the bottom one)...and you'll be there

kk...sorry

Derek Benson
Member
3608 posts
3608 posts

# Posted: 19 Oct 2007 21:50


I would ask one question... why do you want to do this? (not is an asshole tone)


Derek Benson - Phyllomedusa/Hyperolius Enthusiast
spawn
Member
2553 posts
2553 posts

# Posted: 19 Oct 2007 21:57


This is not the forum to introduce mixing ideas. People here will chew you out for it. Just a heads ^.

That being said...I do not think it is a reasonable decision to mix those two. I mean, azureus are found near Suriname, and anoles (Green Anoles?) are found in Florida, Cuba, Carribean, etc. Anoles don't like 90-100% humidity, which is the accepted rule of thumb with D. tinctorius. I mean, I guess I need figures here with the size of the tank itself and if gradients would be present to create enough of a varied environment to meet both species' needs. This is not something I think should even be bothered with, however. Yeah you could do it, but conditions wouldn't be ideal for both of them. Not to mention a FF infestation could stress the lizards out.

Hayden
Member
2943 posts
2943 posts

# Posted: 19 Oct 2007 23:22


Not a good idea. As mentioned above the animals mentioned have totally different humidity and temperature needs. Also, I don't know if you meant you were having Tincs or Azureus or Tincs and Azureus, but I would highly suggest you don't have both in one tank for several reasons. One, they could hybridize which is heavily frowned upon in the dart frog community, and two there would be some serious territorial issues which would eventially lead to the death of some or all of your frogs. Why not get several small tanks rather than one huge tank?

Ed Clark
Member
425 posts
425 posts

# Posted: 20 Oct 2007 00:03


I go with insanely crazed theory!


[img]http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n114/edclark/1ACornutasFeeding032_edited-2.jpg[/img]
memnoch1970
Member
1665 posts
1665 posts

# Posted: 20 Oct 2007 01:12


you cant ask that question here as you can see youll get flamed for it. if you want to keep anoles with your darts then do it. it probably wont hurt anything, but keep in mind what you were told. i dissagree with alot said on this subject. i have a mixed tank, but my animals are all from the same area , so i know there temp and humidity are compatible. i have newts, treefrogs, fish, geckos, green anoles, firebellied toads. now this is a big encloseure with a water filter system that is overkill. ive had this system up and running for 3 years now with no casualties. all my animals have been treated for parrasites, and the encloseur is big enough for everyone to have there own territories. so do what you will but if not done right can be a dissaster.


memnoch the devil
KittenClaw22
Member
4924 posts4924 posts
# Posted: 20 Oct 2007 02:22


Simply put if you have a basking area hot enough to allow the anoles to digest their food your darts will die. If you keep it cool enough for the darts, the anoles will not be able to digest their food and probably die.

If you want to mix a lizard with frogs consider day geckos. Though, I have never heard of a mixed species enclosure working to the best advantage of all species involved. It usually ends with shortened lifespan of all the animals.

If you insist on going through with a mixed species enclosure, pick animals from the same type environment with similar temperature and humidity requirements.


[img]http://www.danasoft.com/sig/kittenclaw22.jpg[/img]
vivariman
Member
590 posts
590 posts

# Posted: 20 Oct 2007 02:24


The official score is.... 0.5 sanity points!.....and 4 insanity points! Winner is insanely crazed theory!

Charlie
Moderator
5432 posts
5432 posts

# Posted: 20 Oct 2007 02:39


My sanity points are 10 times as strong...

I vote nay.

Good job on the responses guys. I was expecting to have to clean up a huge mess because of this topic.


We can never go back to the way it was...
memnoch1970
Member
1665 posts
1665 posts

# Posted: 20 Oct 2007 02:47


kitten is right , a gecko is the better choice. but i dont know your experience level so be careful.


memnoch the devil
Derek Benson
Member
3608 posts
3608 posts

# Posted: 20 Oct 2007 14:21


Be careful with the Phelsumas as well. I have heard of them eating mantellas in a mixed tank of a Madagascan environment.


Derek Benson - Phyllomedusa/Hyperolius Enthusiast
DJ32
Member
36 posts
36 posts

# Posted: 30 Oct 2007 05:44


Memnoch do you have any pics of your enclosure? (I'm assuming in photos) I would really like to see your set up since I'm looking for inspiration right now in building my own. It sounds like a large set up so I want to see what you have designed

Rick Cabrera
Member
155 posts
155 posts

# Posted: 30 Oct 2007 06:39


Ya i really want to see this enclosure to. For some reason i never pictured you as a "mixer". No tone as well with this statement.


2 Red eyes, 1 albino red eye, 3 Bumble bee Dart frogs, 2 Green and Black Auratus
memnoch1970
Member
1665 posts
1665 posts

# Posted: 30 Oct 2007 07:12


all my tanks are not mixed, i have one display dank in my living room that has a land section and a water section. now keep in mind the water section is set up like an aquarium. it contains clawed frogs, giant hong kong newts, paddletailed newt, fire eels, a rope fish, other misc fish. the land section is home to firebelly toads, a mediterranin gecko, and some squrirel treefrogs. this tank is over 150 gallons. i dont have a camera to show you but its simliar to this
mine is much bigger with water falls and a very powerful canister filter. it took a long time to set this up , each animal was treated for parrasites and quarintined for a couple months before put in. like i said i wouldnt suggest it, most people wont do it correctly. the water area is over a foot deep, theres plenty of climbing space, and mutiple levels of land area for maximum ground space. anyway ive been in the hobby for a while and again wouldnt suggest it. no deaths in 3 years[ except a few fish clawed frod ate them] other tha that all is good. its funny to see the clawed frogs interact with the newts, they have been tank buddys for so long its like they no the others not a threat. thts another thing, female clawed frogs get to big for this. i can only keep males[2 of them]. well i hope this helps a good filter is critical for this setup. because of the bio load and firebellies.


memnoch the devil
DJ32
Member
36 posts
36 posts

# Posted: 30 Oct 2007 17:38


WOW! this is absolutely gorgeous (love the color of your snake). It's definately obvious that you've spent a little time at this even without reading any of the information. I would love to have something like this eventually, right now I'm looking for designs like this, just something that looks really nice because I plan on getting treefrogs and want to make something really nice to look at especially if I get a frog thats nocturnal so when he's not up I've still got something nice to look at. Last question, do you feed your snake in the tank or outside (seems like it could be messy if you just threw a mouse in).

kerokero
Member
619 posts
619 posts

# Posted: 30 Oct 2007 18:48


DJ32 - just to note that's not his tank as he mentioned it LOOKED like that tank... but it is a nice chondro ;)

Anolis carolinensis is indeed a bad idea for mixing with dart frogs... but there are plenty of anoles that do live in and around dart frogs. Unfortunately, they are rather uncommon in the hobby. Day geckos are easier to find, but again the best species aren't exactly the cheap ones... P. klemmeri is one of the most popular, but also a very expensive lizard! Honestly, I'm not entirely fond of the idea of Day geckos with PDFs since Day geckos tend to like it drier and warmer than most of the PDFs in the hobby.

In large enough tanks a basking spot is not that big a deal if it is positioned correctly and the tank is tall enough. Food may be more of an issue... feeding the lizards food that can disturb the smaller frogs isn't a fun thing to deal with unless you're willing to hand feed your lizards. In that instance, snakes are easier to deal with, but large snakes will total your decor, and smaller snakes may look at your frogs as food.


Corey of the Little Brown Frogs
memnoch1970
Member
1665 posts
1665 posts

# Posted: 30 Oct 2007 21:23


i should of added, mixing with dartfrogs of anykind is a stupid idea. keeping frogs and snakes together is a stupid idea. theres just some things that cant be done at all.


memnoch the devil
ILoveGreen
Member
4190 posts
4190 posts

# Posted: 30 Oct 2007 22:03


But I thought Fire Bellied Toads were toxic....why risk making the others sick a tiny bit at a time.


Lisa http://www.reptilegeeks.com/ILoveGreen
1.1 Blue Morph Bullfrogs
0.0.2 Mossy Frogs
1.1 Bearded Dragons +
2.6 Leopard Geckos
0.1 Corn Snakes
1 Rat Terrior/Chihuahua dog
+ 1 toddler girl!:)
Carlton
Member
653 posts
653 posts

# Posted: 30 Oct 2007 22:27


I don't think I would call it a "stupid" idea, just an idea that requires so much careful consideration that most of us would not carry it out. The more complex the longer the list of pros and cons would be and lean heavily on the con side. I bet most of us could sheepishly admit to wondering about a particular mix at some point, but by the time we cranked through all the what-ifs we realized that there were too many unknowns and complications...the animals' wellbeing should win out. Some of us love to create fanciful habitats and some of us like to keep our little mini-worlds as close to reality as we can.


"True merit is like a river. The deeper it is the less noise it makes." Edward Frederick Halifax
vivariman
Member
590 posts
590 posts

# Posted: 30 Oct 2007 23:04


I would never mix snakes with anything but fish, and even thats risky. How did snakes get into this whole conversation? its about anoles or other lizards....
anyways, im glad this was just a hypothetical question on my part, i wouldnt actually do it unless i was sure i could, and now i know i cant anyways, so thats fine. I would love to see a real pic of your tank mem, sounds awesome. Ok i hope that cleared up most of this issue. and remember....... Hypothetical!!!!! ("what if question" for those of you wondering)

vivariman
Member
590 posts
590 posts

# Posted: 30 Oct 2007 23:06


Oh and a side question for memnoch... Are newts really able to swim all the wy up to the top of a steep cliff like the one shown? ( i know its not yours. Im just giving an example.) i wouldnt think that they could.

memnoch1970
Member
1665 posts
1665 posts

# Posted: 31 Oct 2007 01:38 · Edited by: memnoch1970


my newts are aquatic, they hardly ever come to the land area. they seem to have no problem, getting on the land when they do decide to try it. theres little spots all around where land acsess is easy.. my tank is very simliar to the one pictured just alot bigger and yes fire bellied are toxic, but my filter i use filters all that out. not to mention theres probably about 45 gallons of water in my tank so its very diluted, before its even filtered.


memnoch the devil
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