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talk to the frog / General / raising tads in tea?
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Sandy_Bear
Member
1842 posts
1842 posts

# Posted: 16 Apr 2012 00:57


I was checking out the Canadart forum, and there is a discussion on raising dart frog tadpoles in Rooibos tea to help protect them from Chytrid.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10252907

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooibos

Does anyone here raise their tadpoles in tea? Has it been tried on other frog tads? What about adult frogs?

greene
Member
305 posts
305 posts

# Posted: 16 Apr 2012 01:01


How would tea help protect them from chytrid?


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Sandy_Bear
Member
1842 posts
1842 posts

# Posted: 16 Apr 2012 02:02 · Edited by: Sandy_Bear


I have no idea, that's why I'm asking

It's the first I've heard of this. I know that there are other chemicals other then the Lamisil spray that can be used to defungalize infected frogs, but this is the first time I've heard of using herbal tea.

meyers kristina
Member
1484 posts
1484 posts

# Posted: 16 Apr 2012 08:59


I did not read thread my badnor know anything about that tea, but I can say.... tadpoles do not have issues with chytrid until they leave the water generally. They lack that keratin needed for the most part, so how will it
"cure" chytrid? lol just asking. Should read thread, a little lazy there

As for products, its up for debate what truly works, IF it works It is worth a shot, but lamisil, itraconazole and chloremphencol are are used to treat it, not necessarily accomplished depending on how advanced things are and other variables IMHO. test, test, test. My tests take 24 hr turn around time. I include ranavirus in the pcr testing to hit two birds with one stone there. Both deadly, I'd euth personally these days. Not worth it. Lamisil is off label of course, itraconazole has shown issues in metamorphs and chloremphenicol can be scary stuff to be around touching as it CAN cause aplastic anemia, a form of leukemia, in some individuals, rare but it happens.

P.s. I raise my tads in tadpole tea from almond leaves, for that amazon water going on but only a tbsp full per cup and it won't cure chytrid in a water source I am sure, but it has its benefits and I leave the leaf skeleton left over in there to nibble on as well.


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greene
Member
305 posts
305 posts

# Posted: 16 Apr 2012 22:47 · Edited by: greene


Maybe its because chytrid cant develope in tea


[URL=http://www.mybannermaker.com][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ECRzP.gif[/IMG][/URL
Cheryl Andrews
Member
2223 posts
2223 posts

# Posted: 17 Apr 2012 01:17


Well, tea is known to have large amounts of tannins. I don't know about rooibos tea per se in respect to tannins, but most plants have them in some amounts. But high amounts have been known to keep down bacteria. It's one of the benefits of putting magnolia or oak leaves in your tanks. But as far as a fungus, I'm pretty sure the only herb I know of that has strong anti fungal properties is garlic, and the tads would hate that! lol

Dispiacere
Member
25 posts
25 posts

# Posted: 17 Apr 2012 05:35


http://dherbs.com/store/candida-buster-tea-p-294.h tml

I'm still new at rearing tadpoles, so im not sure about what is water safe for them and what isn't. Would this tea be ok?

Joh
Member
83 posts
83 posts

# Posted: 18 Apr 2012 14:51


I'm a bit adventurous, and I just couldn't resist.
I switched five of my ACF tadpoles to rooibos this morning. I'll let you know if it works.

Carlton
Member
653 posts
653 posts

# Posted: 21 Apr 2012 00:27


Tea has tannins, but chemically specific ones that are not to be confused with tannins found in "natural" surface waters in different habitats (many of which also test positive for chytrid). Oaks have tannins, conifers have tannins, many tropical rainforest habitats are high in tannins, and tea isn't a part of those vegetation types. You'd need to know what the precise chemicals are. Water that is high enough in tannins to inhibit chytrid might hurt your tads anyway. Also, raising tads in tannic rich water versus tea might not tell you anything because chytrid doesn't always present itself until the tads are morphed...and at that point they are exposed to wet soil, vegetation, etc.


"True merit is like a river. The deeper it is the less noise it makes." Edward Frederick Halifax
Joh
Member
83 posts
83 posts

# Posted: 21 Apr 2012 19:00


I don't really know anything about tannins or chytrid, but I have five ACF tadpoles in a tank of rooibos tea. And, even if they're not doing any better than the tads in normal water, they appear to have healthier skin coats, and darker colouration. I can't be sure though, just my opinion.

Joh
Member
83 posts
83 posts

# Posted: 23 Apr 2012 17:50


I will be posting a picture later. The differences between the frog that was raised in water, and the frog that was raised in tea, are astounding.

Cheryl Andrews
Member
2223 posts
2223 posts

# Posted: 23 Apr 2012 18:09


Well I think as long as it doesn't cause knowing harm to the tadpoles/froglets then it should be an interesting experiment. I would take quite a bit of testing though to be convencing, but I'm interested to see the results you got this round.

Joh
Member
83 posts
83 posts

# Posted: 24 Apr 2012 12:54


I agree, to be conclusive, it would require a detailed, and very complicated , experiment. But, from what I've seen, it seems to work.

This isn't a great picture, but you can see the differences.


Cheryl Andrews
Member
2223 posts
2223 posts

# Posted: 24 Apr 2012 13:44


Interesting! The one thing I notice is the darker color, but we can't be sure that is attributed to the tea or not, unless he was supposed to have been an albino. And the one that was raised in tea is definately almost as big as the one raised in water, when the water one appears to be older or farther along.

It will be interesting to see any consistant results if you continue to experiment with the tea

Joh
Member
83 posts
83 posts

# Posted: 24 Apr 2012 14:55


No, I can't be sure whether the darker coloration is due to the tea. But, all 6 the other frogs were raised in water, and they are all lighter. Also, the frog raised in water metamorphosed almost a week earlier than the one raised in tea. The one raised in tea was almost as large as the largest of the ones raised in water.

Cheryl Andrews
Member
2223 posts
2223 posts

# Posted: 24 Apr 2012 15:23


So maybe the tea delayed the metaphorphosis and allowed the frog to get bigger before then? Just speculation but that is interesting....

Joh
Member
83 posts
83 posts

# Posted: 24 Apr 2012 17:49


I have no idea. To be honest, I'm really new at frogs. This is only the second species of frog that I am raising. I usually keep invertebrates. I agree that it is interesting though.

Cheryl Andrews
Member
2223 posts
2223 posts

# Posted: 26 Apr 2012 13:50


Well good luck at keeping amphibians, it's a really neat hobby IMO.

Joh
Member
83 posts
83 posts

# Posted: 26 Apr 2012 14:07


Thank You Very Much. Thus far I have enjoyed it immensely. The only thing that gets a bit much, is the water changes. But, it is worth it.

Carlton
Member
653 posts
653 posts

# Posted: 26 Apr 2012 20:15


Another option is a dilution of Blackwater Extract water treatment sold by aquarium supplies and Black Jungle. It provides a source of tropical deciduous type tannins, the pH buffering, and organic micronutrients and you can create a specific dilution. May have the same effect as tea and a lot less expensive. I used it for my Malaysian leaf frog adults and was hoping eventually for tads...had no problems and possibly some benefit.


"True merit is like a river. The deeper it is the less noise it makes." Edward Frederick Halifax
Joh
Member
83 posts
83 posts

# Posted: 26 Apr 2012 21:40


Very interesting. Rooibos tea is a South African product, so it is quite cheap here. Blackwater extract, on the other hand, is very hard to find.

Carlton
Member
653 posts
653 posts

# Posted: 27 Apr 2012 00:50


Oh I'm sorry Joh...didn't realize where you live! But, all the same there might possibly be an aquarium water additive available in your area that could be of interest. It is used to create brackish conditions for freshwater or brackish water species.


"True merit is like a river. The deeper it is the less noise it makes." Edward Frederick Halifax
Sandy_Bear
Member
1842 posts
1842 posts

# Posted: 27 Apr 2012 04:22


Carlton, what is the dilution for frogs?

Joh
Member
83 posts
83 posts

# Posted: 27 Apr 2012 11:55


Thanks Carlton, I'll have a look. I might find something of interest at one of the local pet shops.

Carlton
Member
653 posts
653 posts

# Posted: 1 May 2012 22:02


Carlton, what is the dilution for frogs?

I don't know of any specific guidance and it may be different depending on species and what type of water area you are treating. I just added a few drops to smaller soaking dishes until I saw a slight tinge. Basically I wanted to change the pH of the water toward acidic for Malaysian leaf frogs and add the tannins because their native streams would be similar. Nothing extreme. If you are raising tads possibly there's some husbandry info on tad raising that might give you a target pH to shoot for.


"True merit is like a river. The deeper it is the less noise it makes." Edward Frederick Halifax
Sandy_Bear
Member
1842 posts
1842 posts

# Posted: 1 May 2012 22:27


Ok, thanks

Joh
Member
83 posts
83 posts

# Posted: 4 May 2012 17:31


Just added a new thread with another picture.

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