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talk to the frog / General / chytrid project???
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AliB
Member
117 posts
117 posts

# Posted: 19 Feb 2009 02:13


does anybody have any kind of idea what kind of extensive project i could do on chytrid.. keep in mind i have limited financial resources but enough to get maybe a few dif. kinds of hearty frogs but i dont want to kill any of them .. iv had enough of that lately, i want to make my classmates aware of what this is and what its doing but i have to have some sort of physical presentation and an actual experiment done... please help!!!

cherisse
Member
1536 posts
1536 posts

# Posted: 19 Feb 2009 02:28


well, first i think you would need to have frogs that would test positive for chytrid. which means that you would need to send in tissue samples, not very cheap and potentially harmful for the frogs.

i suppose then that you could experiment on what treatment(s) work on treating it.

you could do a write up on the signs and symptoms of chytrid. and then the treatment (lamisil) that has been seemingly working to stop the infection on pet frogs..

you could then go into a proposal of sorts on why it either would or wouldnt work in mass volumes on wild populations and the effects of that..

im just spitting off ideas here, so if none of them sound appealing, sorry.




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MonkeyFrogMan28
Member
811 posts
811 posts

# Posted: 19 Feb 2009 02:39


maybe you can use a wet cotton swab and wipe the frogs skin and test the swab. that might work. test it under a microscope.


too much too handle
cherisse
Member
1536 posts
1536 posts

# Posted: 19 Feb 2009 02:44


taking from the reply above, you could also do a slide show, of what the bacteria in an infected frog looks like compared to a healthy one..




3.4.0 Mantella Milotympanum
Zach Valois
Member
96 posts
96 posts

# Posted: 19 Feb 2009 02:50 · Edited by: Moderator


Not to offend you, but I think if you are asking this question, you perhaps may not be qualified to conduct research on it. I'm sure there are at least a decent number of published papers on the matter, those of which you should have already found if seriously interested in this subject. I work with invertebrates, so I do not know a lot about current understanding of this, although I believe much of the work being done with this remains at the molecular level. I'm sure there is an equal amount of other lab and field work being done with this problem, however this work [I would assume] is very in-depth and at least somewhat expensive.
May I ask what class and college level you are at so we can better pinpoint an appropriate research project?

Do not take this post negatively, I just feel that this is a subject that demands specialists, or at least advising specialists.

Please slap me if we are talking about the high-school/middle school level.

This board has a great thread going on Chyrtid, I assume you have read it. If not check it out,

http://talkto.thefrog.org/index.php?action=vthread &forum=3&topic=14868

Zach


Zachary J. Valois
Salt Lake City, Utah.
OutLanderInverts@yahoo.com

"Only Hobbyists can eliminate the demand for wild caught animals"
mike12348
Member
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509 posts

# Posted: 19 Feb 2009 03:04


Please slap me if we are talking about the high-school/middle school level.





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AliB
Member
117 posts
117 posts

# Posted: 19 Feb 2009 03:41


ha ha yes im in high school but im actually in the equivalent of a college 101 biology class .. so take what you wish from that ... and i cant just show what chytrid is i have to provide some sort of physical work .... I want people to understand the impact that this stuff has and i think it would be a relatively interesting topic to teach a class about i just dont know how to go about doing it without killing a bunch of frogs or further causing them harm not to mention who in their right mind would bring a bunch of frogs full of fungus into their house with a bunch of other animals at risk .. certainly not me i just need someone to point me down a road that has some potential.. and yes i have seen the thread .. actually its what made me think of it

Zach Valois
Member
96 posts
96 posts

# Posted: 19 Feb 2009 03:48


lol..my apologies.

I would then just present a concise overview of chytrid fungus in general. Cover whats happening, potential causes, distribution, physiology, control and study efforts, etc, etc, etc. Do A LOT of research, there is a ton of information out there. Your teacher will also be impressed with numerous references.


Zachary J. Valois
Salt Lake City, Utah.
OutLanderInverts@yahoo.com

"Only Hobbyists can eliminate the demand for wild caught animals"
AliB
Member
117 posts
117 posts

# Posted: 19 Feb 2009 03:50


thats kinda what i was planning on but there still has to be a physical aspect to it.. this class really is quite difficult .. my teacher expects a lot from us

Cheryl Andrews
Member
2223 posts
2223 posts

# Posted: 19 Feb 2009 04:16


Well, you could go to a local pet store and test their frogs with a swab and a microscope to see the percentage of pet frogs that could have chytrid. Or you could catch frogs from around the neighborhood once it's warmer and swab them...only taking the swab with you and a description of the place and type of frog you tested. I'm not the best at this sort of thing, but it sounds like this might be the least harmful form of experiment.

AliB
Member
117 posts
117 posts

# Posted: 19 Feb 2009 04:18


yea that is a pretty good idea .. ill have to think it over and c if they will let me use the ELMO to examine some of the swabs at school and maybe if a few test+ i could try for a culture in some ager .... hmm.. now you have me thinking

thank's

Cheryl Andrews
Member
2223 posts
2223 posts

# Posted: 19 Feb 2009 04:20


No prob!

Zach Valois
Member
96 posts
96 posts

# Posted: 19 Feb 2009 04:27 · Edited by: Zach Valois


Testing chyrtid on local captive anurans (both in pet stores and personal pets) and quantifying and presenting data would be a thought. I think PCR testing is the most accurate test method. If memory serves, this test is around $30 a swab, not including shipping. To get useful numbers of infected or non-infected animals in your region (either captive or wild) may become expensive. Of course keep in mind at ALL times to be weary of transferring chytrid from specimens to specimens, locality to locality, etc.
Another thought, and more within your means, may be to collect and gather all the data you can find on species specific accounts of chytrid. Quantify and present statistical/tablet information and then describe your findings; in this propose or suggest reasons for species specific trends in chyrtid susceptibility, reaction, and/or resilience.


Zachary J. Valois
Salt Lake City, Utah.
OutLanderInverts@yahoo.com

"Only Hobbyists can eliminate the demand for wild caught animals"
Frog Style
Member
2277 posts
2277 posts

# Posted: 19 Feb 2009 04:28 · Edited by: Frog Style


But, if you have no idea what you are looking for in the tests, then it's going to be pointless. I don't think some local store, or even a chain store will allow you to test their frogs to see if they have CF. Mom and pop or chain stores may not know about this, and if they seem to think you have some idea that their frogs are sick, it probably won't be pretty.

If you have no idea what the slides look like (although in Steven's thread it does show a photo, but each *could* be slightly different), swabbing them yourself is going to be waste of time. You're chances would probably get a lab to do it, but will cost you more money in the end.

My only question to you is, why don't you try the other ideas people have asked? Culture of FFs on how they bread? They're cheaper and will cost you a bit less - esp. if you have limited amount of funds.

Just my $.02 cents.

edit;

I think PCR testing is the most accurate test method. If memory serves, this test is around $30 a swab, not including shipping.

but, the thing is, getting the tests back in time for her project to be finished. There have been people on here who've been wanting to send in the tests, but someone on here (I forgot who) said it would take months to get any results as there's a line of people wanting to get their frogs tested and see if they're positive. And by then, it's too late......


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Zach Valois
Member
96 posts
96 posts

# Posted: 19 Feb 2009 04:38 · Edited by: Zach Valois


If you have an electron scanning microscope, a cool project would be to obtain (through donation or research loan) some various specimens (live or dead), either conspecifics or interspecifics, and then compare and describe the physiological differences between the way different species or different individuals skin is effected by chytrid. You could even go so far as to compare further published work regarding systematics/phylogenetics and physiology, and then support a thesis proposing a relationship between the skin type of (e.g. specific chemicals and compounds) that is found in a species or taxon and the difference in skin reaction and chytrid behavior/progression when compared to different species or individuals.


Zachary J. Valois
Salt Lake City, Utah.
OutLanderInverts@yahoo.com

"Only Hobbyists can eliminate the demand for wild caught animals"
Zach Valois
Member
96 posts
96 posts

# Posted: 19 Feb 2009 04:40 · Edited by: Zach Valois


Frogstyle, you had some great points. With this all said, I would stick with something a little bit more basic and smaller in scale, as FS reiterated.


Zachary J. Valois
Salt Lake City, Utah.
OutLanderInverts@yahoo.com

"Only Hobbyists can eliminate the demand for wild caught animals"
Al_frog
Member
873 posts
873 posts

# Posted: 19 Feb 2009 04:43


I'm no expert, but I think working with Chytrid includes all the problems you mentioned and more. I think it costs at least $25 per sample, takes 2-4 weeks to get done (or now I am hearing longer), and has a high error rate especially in false negatives.

You evidently didn't like my last proposal so I have a new one! What I have observed in my Golden Tree Frogs (Polypedates leucomystax) is a very high degree of color change. My more neutral colored ones go from a very pale gray (almost white) to almost black, while my more gold ones go from a pale cream through highly patterned orange with dark bands to deep orange-brown. I do not know what is really known about what causes them to change colors but it could be due to several factors: temperature, moisture, degree of stress, color of surroundings or what they are sitting on, type and intensity of light. Also I have no idea how fast they change as a result of the environmental change (whatever that is or several in combination) that causes them to change color. What I have seen is this one particular female that turns almost white when she sits on the plastic tub (sort of hazy white color) and when she sits in the plant pot with dark soil she may be almost black. I have heard some insist that frogs do not change with the color of their surroundings but it is a mood type of thing. Now you would think the color change is for camouflage so you would think that the frog would be more likely to change to match (to the degree possible) the color it is sitting on or surrounded by. So you could have a small tank and put colored plastic material on the floor and see if you get a change of color in the frog that tends towards the color of the floor and you cold keep the color of the floor the same and vary the temps and see if this changes things. Lots of possibilities. You could also try this with WTFs or RETFs, but the color changes generally aren't as dramatic. The Gold Tree Frogs are usually available at very reasonable prices as WC juvies or adults and you might even be able to get a wholesaler to sell you a bunch at even lower prices for a student project. You would also probably get a lot of experience treating nose rubs, wounds, and parasite/health problems.

Good Luck on whatever your project turns out to be....

MonkeyFrogMan28
Member
811 posts
811 posts

# Posted: 19 Feb 2009 05:28


heres a good project. test and show chytrid and explain what it is and how it affects other eco systems if frogs die. teach your fellow high school students the problem that is on hand. A lot of people are not aware of whats going on to frogs and amphibians, ecspecially at the high school level. I think that would be easy for you to do and catch the interest of your fellow students.

Bring your frogs in as a live example of how great frogs are so everyone stays interested.

I did a project in my college bio class on P. Bicolor (giant waxy monkey frogs) and i brought them to class along with my tiger legs and my fire salamanders( i brought the fires just to show off haha:lol i Aced the presentation. i even got my monkeys and sals to feed live infront of the class. just be creative!!!! and good luck


too much too handle
AliB
Member
117 posts
117 posts

# Posted: 19 Feb 2009 05:50


thanks everyone im just soooooo confused as to what to do now iv sunk so much money into this i cant believe that it fell through... i dont know what im going to do now..... looks like a new pet and a whole lot of wasted money that i really didnt have to waste ...grrrrrr

Al_frog
Member
873 posts
873 posts

# Posted: 19 Feb 2009 06:29


I can understand your frustration but realize that if things are too easy you won't be learning anything and the harder things are the more you will get out of it. The brain is like a muscle so the more you challenge it the more you get out of it! The purpose at you level of doing a project is not what you discover but what you learn about doing research. You will find out that doing things is a lot harder than what they seem like reading about them (or thinking about them). You could still do the project I suggested with the RETFs but I think they are kind of small and the color changes aren't as dramatic and easily observed as in some other frogs. Good Luck!

nphilly
Member
237 posts
237 posts

# Posted: 19 Feb 2009 07:00


Please slap me if we are talking about the high-school/middle school level.

just wanted to do that

how about... an experiment testing the way your frogs adapt to their lighting schedules? this is not a truly formed thought, but maybe you can work with it?

since you have 7 you could get them on different schedules using timers? ummmm... i dunno what the hypothesis would be, but i have definitely gotten into a discussion on this site about how i have my frog's lights on 11am-11pm and others believe it should be 7am-7pm. we mostly determined what matters is the amount of time, not what time of the day it actually is.

hahah ok i give up this may be a terrible idea. i have been studying all night... this was my unwind.


Nina
Cheryl Andrews
Member
2223 posts
2223 posts

# Posted: 19 Feb 2009 13:05


an experiment testing the way your frogs adapt to their lighting schedules?
That could be interesting, especially if the light schedules had different lengths of time. One at 12 hours, one at 18 hours, and one like at 9 hours light. The hypothesis could be if light or the amount of it would cause a frog to think it's winter. Hope this helps. Thanks for that idea Nina!

Carlton
Member
653 posts
653 posts

# Posted: 20 Feb 2009 03:32


There are several options that would be fairly simple to do with the frogs you still have...I assume your teacher wants you to set up some kind of experiment to test a hypothesis (that's the work part).

You could start with a hypothesis like

RTF kept in different environments (light cycle, temp range, amount of cover, etc)
do or don't change their behavior, or
do or don't change their rate of growth

To test this hypothesis, put each of your existing frogs in different setups and test their growth rate, their behavior, how they use the space and how much time they spend basking, hiding, hunting, calling, etc. Then compare them to each other, discuss what you observed, and come to a conclusion.

Doing work on chytrid will cost you as you can't identify it using normal lab equipment. It may take too long to get the results and you didn't end up doing the work anyway. You also don't want to take any chances of spreading chytrid to other animals and would need to stick to a very strict decontamination plan.


"True merit is like a river. The deeper it is the less noise it makes." Edward Frederick Halifax
AliB
Member
117 posts
117 posts

# Posted: 20 Feb 2009 19:52


i dont want to stress the few remaining animals i have out any more than i already have... there are just for pet purposes for a while ... i couldnt bear it if i lost them all because of this project.. im thinking about getting maybe a few pacman frogs or some fire bellies or possibly a whites tree frog idk i have to do more research first....

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