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talk to the frog / General / Getting a 50 gallon/Green Frog Care
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Brunok9
Member
333 posts
333 posts

# Posted: 17 Oct 2007 18:22


Because we got the new turtle tank (The one with the glass shelf/pocket in it used as land), I get to take the old 50 gallon and use it however I want in my upcoming birthday in March. However, I'm not sure I'm going to do it now.

I originally was going to put my two wood frogs in there, but now I just discovered that woods frogs stay under an inch in size, despite what I thought before. Now, I really don't know what to put in it. I was think about fire-bellied newts, but I'm not sure if the tank is too big for them. Now I am considered green frogs, but I'm not sure. I really want something water based, since I don't believe any land frogs/lizards could be set up in a 50 gallon, and I'm not sure if I can get the tank set up right. A tank can be too big, can't it?

I also have to keep in mind that what I get is what I need to care for, so I need to make sure I can feed tyhese guys. One or two, maybe three animals, will be fine, but I cannot feed more. I have to remember my wood frogs here.

My question is; what would you recommend that can fit into a 50 gallon? (It's not a 50 gallon long or tall, it's the standard rectangle)

Also, has anyone here had experience with green frogs? Not tree frogs, the WATER frogs (Lithobates clamitans, previously Rana clamitans) . I know they can easily get confused.

Also, would would fire bellied newts fair in a 50 gallon (Cynops orientalis)?

Thanks for all answers and info, I like to be informed about an animal before I get it. Rather safe than sorry..


1.0.0-Dog (Beligian Malinois)
1.1.0-Red-Eared Sliders
1.0.0-Betta
1.1.0-Wood Frogs
90 Gallon full of tropical fish
Rick Cabrera
Member
155 posts
155 posts

# Posted: 17 Oct 2007 19:32


You should try vietnamese mossy tree frogs. From what i have heard from breeders they are really hardy and nees lots and lots of water compared to most tree frogs. If your budget can afford it i would go for some of those. A 50 gallon should be more then enough for them.


2 Red eyes, 1 albino red eye, 3 Bumble bee Dart frogs, 2 Green and Black Auratus
Brunok9
Member
333 posts
333 posts

# Posted: 17 Oct 2007 20:29 · Edited by: Brunok9


They look okay but I think out of my range. I also don't like to ship from online...I've seen too many bad experiences on here and too many people getting ripped of..don't think I want to take that chace...

I have alot of pet stores around me, one of them sells tadpoles (Mostly green frog or leopord tadpoles), and the same stores sells the newts. I also have about three exotic pet stores near me with exotic frogs, but I want to do research before getting anything.

(Edit: Added info. instead of posting agian.)


1.0.0-Dog (Beligian Malinois)
1.1.0-Red-Eared Sliders
1.0.0-Betta
1.1.0-Wood Frogs
90 Gallon full of tropical fish
KittenClaw22
Member
4924 posts4924 posts
# Posted: 18 Oct 2007 01:39


Green frogs and bullfrogs don't make good captives. They produce a musk that can cause the entire enclosure to smell very badly almost immediately after cleaning it. Plus they are skittery and jumpy, they can inadvertently jump into the side and crack either their head or the glass. Since you can't guarantee what type tadpole you are getting I wouldn't suggest getting one. It could turn out to be a bullfrog and believe me, you don't want one of those.

I would suggest green tree frogs. They are easy to care for, you can create a beautiful forest/woodland enclosure relatively inexpensively. Plus they do well in most houses at room temperature. They are from the south eastern US all the way up to Indiana, so they can tolerate temps as low as 65-70 degrees.

Green tree frogs, gray tree frogs and barking tree frogs are all inexpensive animals that are easy to care for and will do well with minimal fussing. You could comfortably house 5-6 in a 50 gallon with plenty of space for everyone.

All three of these species would do well with a shallow paludarium type set up. Here are some paludarium design ideas: http://members.tripod.com/~Tropic_Cove/aquariums/p aludarium.html

I would suggest finding out what type of frogs you have readily available in your area if you have your heart set against shipping. Then decide what type of enclosure you want to make, vivarium, terrarium, paludarium, etc.

If you have your heart set on a semi-aquatic enclosure you could consider newts.

Determine the type of enclosure you plan to make and take your time setting it up, research, research research, test the temps and humidity range and have it all set up and ready before purchasing the frogs.

But please don't be put off by the shipping horror stories you have heard. It isn't all bad, for every horror story there are probably 100 great stories that people just don't tell.

What kind of tropical fish do you have? I have been planning to set up a 75 for freshwater fish and can't decide what to do.


[img]http://www.danasoft.com/sig/kittenclaw22.jpg[/img]
tth_lee
Member
554 posts
554 posts

# Posted: 18 Oct 2007 11:52


If you are considering fire-bellied newts, make sure you have the means to meet their cooler temperature requirements (under 74F) year-round, especially during summer. They make great pets once established but make sure you either choose healthy newts or obtain from a breeder. The newts sold in pet stores are almost always imported and in bad condition.

A decent group sized group of 5-8 newts could live in 55 gallon if the tank is filled halfway with projecting and/or floating land areas available. Keep in mind that fire-bellied newts have shown a tendency to breed readily when there's a change in temperature (i.e. seasons change).

This is a very useful resource for Cynops newts:

http://www.livingunderworld.org/caudata/database/s alamandridae/cynops/

Here's the PDF in case you want to print it out and read it like a book:

http://www.livingunderworld.org/caudata/database/s alamandridae/cynops/cynops.pdf


Tom
1.0.0 Horned frog | Ceratophrys cranwelli
0.0.1 Golden fantail | Carassius auratus
1.1.0 Chinese fire-bellied newt | Cynops orientalis
1.0.0 Betta fish Betta splendens
My collection is small, but less is more :-
snafu
Member
98 posts
98 posts

# Posted: 18 Oct 2007 14:10


I have yet to hear of a tank being too big, the only problem there would be actually being able to find them if you go with a naturalistic forest display. The more room you give them the happier/less stressed they will be.


Just because nobody complains doesn't mean all parachutes are perfect.
Phineas
Member
286 posts
286 posts

# Posted: 18 Oct 2007 14:31


While I wholeheartedly agree that bullfrogs are a horrid choice, I think Green Frogs often get an undeservedly bad rap. Yes, they do have a bit of an odor but I find it very mild (if you've ever been around a mink frog, the green smells like perfume by comparison), and they do require a large enclosure (50 gallon could accomodate 3 nicely) because they are Olympian jumpers, but I still wouldn't rule them out.....and they are so plentiful, they can fit any budget. In appearance, they are truly a frog among frogs; whenever children draw frogs it is the green frog that emerges.

My experience with them is if they are raised from tadpoles or collected soon after morphing, as opposed to wild caught 2-3 inchers, they are not overly rambunctious and make nice pets. You won't want to waste any $ on live plants because they will mangle them when moving about. Two endearing features of green frogs are their unique banjo-strum call, and the fact that they can be active day and night ...they won't hide most of the day like your wood frogs.

If you arrange your tank with half land and half water, or 1/3 land 2/3 water to a gradual depth of 4-5 inches you will find green frogs sitting at water's edge and smiling.


Pacific Chorus frogs,
A lizard or two,
Rana Sylvatica (hundreds),
... and a pair of raccoon.
Jay Willis
Member
1465 posts
1465 posts

# Posted: 18 Oct 2007 17:15


I agree with Phineas.

Their not that bad if You get them as tad poles or even fresh morphs.

Brunok9
Member
333 posts
333 posts

# Posted: 18 Oct 2007 20:49 · Edited by: Brunok9


Thanks for the input, it has helped ALOT!

This incloser would be in my basement, so it would be cooler but not freezing (We just got the basement redone, and it has a fireplace/heating and everything)

I am considering green or grey tree frogs alot. They are one of the frogs in my local area I can get readily. I have a long list of frogs I have readliy available (I made one put was too long to put on here.)

Because of the cooler temps down there (I guess, now that I went down there, is not that much cooler than the upstairs, about 73/72 degress) Fire Bellied Nexts are a large possibilitiy. I would like setting up a water tank to add some variety, since my turtles pretty much tear up any plant put in there.

I know bull frogs make bad pets, I wasn't going for those. Instead, I an considering green frogs. Not only are they water based, but they look cool and I love frogs, so I'm not going to rule those either.

Kittenclaw, I we've went through alot of fish in our 90 gallon. YOu have to make sure that the fish you get don't get huge, and do the research yourself. Not putting down pet stores or anything, but the fish that they say stay little end up getting more that two feet long, or are agressive. We've had this happen many times. We used to have iridesent sharks in the beginning (About three inches long) and they quicky grew to about eight inches. When we looked them up online we saw that they got three feet long. That's happened about 3 times, us having to return fish because they got too big. We also got told that africans were 'friendly', and there......not.

Right now, we have sword tails (Calico, pineapple, and red) and black mollies. We also have five Corys (Corydoras arcuatus), two Pimelodus pictus (I think), one discus (VERY picky, had many of these die on us, but beautiful fish), 6 Goldskirt Tetra (Most active, recommended), and 3 new tetras (Lemon, I think) We also have two big guys, one Satanoperca Jurupari (pretty fish, but you can have two males or they WILL try and kill eachother) and one Heros severus, Severn. These were, agian, supposed to be 'little' guys, and now they are huge!

I'll post pics later though, I was planning to do so anyway this weekend.

(Edit: Great website where I do much of my info http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profil e22.html)


1.0.0-Dog (Beligian Malinois)
1.1.0-Red-Eared Sliders
1.0.0-Betta
1.1.0-Wood Frogs
90 Gallon full of tropical fish
KittenClaw22
Member
4924 posts4924 posts
# Posted: 18 Oct 2007 23:30


Green frogs produce a similar musk as bullfrogs do, and have the same jumping problems. You could still end up with one of the green frogs that never accepts captivity and jumps into the glass till he does himself an injury. It's quite common. Not to mention how downright dirty they are. All large frogs produce a lot of waste, but these frogs really make the water smell. I wouldn't even consider a green frog or a bull frog as a captive because of experience I have had with them.

Tree frogs or newts would serve you better in the end.

As for fish... I have had black tetras, neons, sword tails, mollies and cory catfish in the past at different times.

I had a pair of swordtails in a 10 gallon and they reproduced. After the female dropped her young the male died. Not having a male in the tank triggered some chemical change and all the fish in the tank turned into males. It was pretty weird. The males chased each other around, tried to mate and for all the world acted like homosexuals. I am still amazed.

I had a single black tetra in a 5 gallon tank for all my teenage years, never realizing that they are supposed to be school fish. That fish must have lived for 6-7 years alone with only a golden algae eater as company.

I wish that I could have some sort of an eel in with some school fish like danios or tetras. I just love to watch a large group of small fish move together in a large tank. Unfortunately I don't think they would do well together. I will probably end up doing just very gentle tropical fish. Aggressive fish like barbs and silver dollars are beautiful but they make me nervous for some reason. I couldn't ever stand to have fish that ate other fish like oscars.


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Brunok9
Member
333 posts
333 posts

# Posted: 18 Oct 2007 23:43 · Edited by: Brunok9


Yea, I know what you mean. I love the gentler fish, I hate when I have to worry about the fish eater eachother/ huirting eachother/ tearing fins of/ etc.

I personally like the swordtails, but a week ago I learned about their sex changes and I must say I was rather freaked out. I had seen fish that had changed (Our friend owns a tropical fish store) but never have had it actually happen.

I love the tetras, I love how they stay in a group. The goldskirt tetras (I think they are also called black tetras) all stay in a group and follow eachother around. It's cool to watch. I have also wanted eels, also, but from what I heard they don't do good in community tanks.

When the 'big guys' go I think it would be cool to a whole bunch of small fish that stay in schools. I do like the Jurupari alot, so I would probably stick with them.

We had a breeding pair of angelfish once, it happened by chance, but sadly other fish ate their fry and they died (We've had this tank for five years now about) Discus are big beautiful fish also, but they're just so picky.

Silver dollars are supposed to get 6 inches long. That suprized me at first when I learned it, because we were looking at getting some.


Back to the frogs, I think I most likely go with the newts. I hear some fish can live in the tank for some time because the newts are too slow to eat them most of the time.

I was looking at a website that said bullfrogs can comfortably kept in a 20 gallon and make good pets. Of course I know this isn't true, but it isn't right that they say that.


1.0.0-Dog (Beligian Malinois)
1.1.0-Red-Eared Sliders
1.0.0-Betta
1.1.0-Wood Frogs
90 Gallon full of tropical fish
KittenClaw22
Member
4924 posts4924 posts
# Posted: 19 Oct 2007 01:40


If you make a new thread with newts in the title I am sure you will get a lot of good advice on species. I can't remember who was posting pictures and videos of their paddletail newt but I know there are some newt experts on this forum. Although I wouldn't guarantee that any amphibian wouldn't eat something that could fit in their mouth, so be prepared to lose fish if you house them with newts.

I have a comet (feeder goldfish) in a 29 and a really mean chinese algae eater. The comet is at least 5-6 inches long and I have had him for a few years now, it's amazing how messy he can be. You always hear people joke about how stupid fish are, but he goes to the top of the water and begs when I approach the tank. He knows it is almost time to eat when I stand in front of the aquarium. It's hilarious.


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Brunok9
Member
333 posts
333 posts

# Posted: 22 Oct 2007 22:01


Yea, goldfish live FOREVER! It takes alot to kill them (without using force or anything). They do seem to have personalities sometimes...but that may just be me.

Anyway, I think I'm going in an entirely different direction and going with green frogs. I heard their call and fell in love with them. The also are beutiful frogs, if you look at some of their pics.


1.0.0-Dog (Beligian Malinois)
1.1.0-Red-Eared Sliders
1.0.0-Betta
1.1.0-Wood Frogs
90 Gallon full of tropical fish
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