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talk to the frog / Help / I'm FREAKING OUT!!! Gargoyle Gecko problem
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Heather
Moderator
7561 posts
7561 posts

# Posted: 15 Mar 2006 21:45


HELP!!!! *crying* There is something wrong with Dub, my gargoyle gecko! He was fine 3 days ago when I flushed him out of his hiding spot in his log. He hides a lot so I make sure to get him to come out so I can check on him every couple days. He was eating just fine from what I could tell... I wasn't finding any crickets (he'd only eat 2 or 3 a week... mostly ate baby food) I've been careful to add calcium dust to the baby food every couple feedings and I dust the crickets as well once a week.

When I flushed him out about 3 days ago he was shedding so I figured I'd leave him alone until he finished. When I came home from work today, I saw him sitting half out of his hiding spot and noticed he still wasn't completely shed. The skin was still covering the back half of his body... just looked like a white baggie trailing behind him... so I figured I'd help him out. I reached in for him to help ease the rest of his shed off... then got a look at his face!!!!

What happened???? Could he possibly have broken his lower jaw?? Could it be some kind og bone problem?? He was fine 3 days ago!! When I got him out his tongue was covered in dirt and there was some in his mouth so I rinsed it out with my water bottle with treated water. He was VERY calm through the whole thing... let me flush out his mouth... even drank some of the water and ate from baby food off the tip of my finger. His tongue seems to be fine except looking a bit more red on the tip that.. and he can't close his mouth.

These are NOT the pictures that I wanted to post of him to finally show you all what he looks like.




Some set-up info...
29 tall tank
temps are usually room temp ranging between 72-85. When it cools off I had a low wat (25) heat lamp on him. There is peat and echo earth as substrate, fake plants and couple branches for climbing (one is wood... the other is the stump log that he likes to hide in) I'm not sure what the humidity is... maybe around 30% or so... a little higher when I mist which is 2 times a week. There is a small water dish and the lid that I put his food on. But other than that, it's a pretty simple set up.

What should I do??? In my opinion this doesn't look like something that will just "get better" with time. And unfortunately.. due to an unexpected car repair... I don't have the money for an emergency vet visit.

Any input from any of you that know about geckos would be great!!!

Thank you so much everyone! I'm so upset and at a complete loss as to what to do!!!


* Heather *

1.1.0 Dendrobate Azureus
TimOsborne
Member
2256 posts
2256 posts

# Posted: 15 Mar 2006 22:30 · Edited by: TimOsborne


Heather.. It is actually not un-heard of for geckos to break their jaw while diving after crickets. and.. unfortunately, that is what it looks like. There was a discussion on one of the mailing list back in the fall where someone had a similar problem with a day gecko. I have it saved on my laptop, if you will email me, I will forward you the links. There were several people that helped on that topic that had previous experience with it. I am pretty sure the gecko is doing ok now.. You are going to have nurse it a lot though. I do remember that they set it up in a nursery type tank, very sterile.. so if you want, you can get started with that while waiting on my email.

Email is bogart6868@aol.com.. it will be 9ish est before I can email it to you. But I will get you everything that I can find. You may also want to check out the following sites:

http://www.geckoworld.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=10 &sid=83edee9bc5f3b032d9d68e307ac80b5d

http://www.acreptiles.com

http://www.forums.repashy.com/index.php

Both Repashy and Caponetto have a lot of experience with the Rhac breeds of geckos. If I was you, I would search their sites for an email and bounce the information to them for some advice as well. While I don't know either, I have heard they are very very helpful.

Heather
Moderator
7561 posts
7561 posts

# Posted: 15 Mar 2006 22:39


THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!! My email is ellasmommie@yahoo.com Any link that you think will help would be GREAT!!!! I really want this to be ok... so I will start right now on a hospital tank. Do you think that a 2 gallon critter keeper would be too small? Or should I sacrifice my pinhead crickets and dump them to use the 10 gallon they are in??

Thank you so much again!!! I will check out the other sites and read what they have.

You've given me hope!!!


* Heather *

1.1.0 Dendrobate Azureus
TimOsborne
Member
2256 posts
2256 posts

# Posted: 15 Mar 2006 22:43


Heather.. I would give it as much room as possible. If it is possible to move the pinheads for a few weeks until your gargoyle is better.. I would certainly move them. Be carfule with the tank, I doubt your gecko will do a lot of climbing, and you wont want it constantly wet.. so, move your crickets and clean out the 10.. I will search through the mailing list that I belong too and see if I can find it while here for you.. it desribes what they did with theirs.

Also, I would seriously email repashy.. he is, at least in most peoples opinion.. the #1 authority on Rhacs..

TimOsborne
Member
2256 posts
2256 posts

# Posted: 15 Mar 2006 23:07


Heather.. you have mail..

Heather
Moderator
7561 posts
7561 posts

# Posted: 15 Mar 2006 23:11


Thank you again Tim... He is now in the 10 gallon with paper towels, a shallow water dish and a clump of fake pothos to hide under. I washed everything off with boiling water then rinsed with cooler water. He ate a bit more baby food off my finger and doesn't seem to mind me helping out. I will check my email and do what I have to do to ensure that Dub is brought back to full healthy again... or at least do what I can for him.

Poor little bugger At least he doesn't seem to be in pain. (I know... reptiles don't feel pain the same as we do... but DANG it sure doesn't look comfortable!


* Heather *

1.1.0 Dendrobate Azureus
Kittenclaws
Member
26 posts
26 posts

# Posted: 16 Mar 2006 00:08


That looks horrible. I hope he turns out okay. I've never seen anything like that.

Please keep us posted.

Heather
Moderator
7561 posts
7561 posts

# Posted: 16 Mar 2006 04:35 · Edited by: Heather


I just checked in on him and gave him a few more drops if water and baby food. His toungue looks A LOT better now that I've cleaned him all off. I read over the sites that Tim linked me to and emailed to me. So on Friday (next day off) I'll be heading to a craft store to look for the non-toxic re-adjustable spray adhesive that was mentioned and looking for a stable, yet soft material to make a splint with. (Any suggestions?)

He doesn't seem to be having much trouble climbing... though I don't have anything in the hospital tank that he can climb high on. He's hiding in the fake pothos and seems to be resting in a rather comfy position which is keeping his mouth closed a bit more.

I'm going to pick up an eye dropper tomorrow at work to help with food and water rather than worrying if my finger is clean enough. And I've made a mixture of mango, honey and calcium powder.

Other than the jaw thing, he appears pretty healthy. He isn't looking thin, his eyes are bright and clear and he's breathing normally. So for now, I'm just going to watch over him closely and hopefully a few weeks with a splint on his lower jaw will help him mend.

I was starting to loose a bit of interest in him lately because of how much he likes to hide and I was going to try and find a new home for him. But that has all changed now. If I am able to get him better again, I don't care how much he hides... he's mine for the rest of his life!!!

I will keep you all posted.

Thank you again Tim for all your help and all the resources you've given me!!!

I'm so glad the forum is up again... I dont' know what I would have done without you guys in this situation!

Oh.. one more question... about how long does it normally take for the tail to grow back? Or will it at all? As you can see in the first picture.. he's got a nubby (bought him that way) but it doesn't seem to be getting any longer yet. (his tail was caught in the lid shortly after arriving at the pet shop. Inexperienced employee and a nervous critter)


* Heather *

1.1.0 Dendrobate Azureus
Kittenclaws
Member
26 posts
26 posts

# Posted: 16 Mar 2006 05:30


Sounds like he has had a rough time so far, lost a tail in the war at the petshop, broke his jaw in a freak hunting accident... He'll have something to tell the grandkids about. hehe!

If you know how to crochet you could do a single row and slide a toothpick into it. Then it would be like a padded stick. Soft, but very firm. You could acheive the same end by one-plaiting a peice of yarn, thats when you make a slip knot and pull the yarn through the knot over and over, making a rope out of continual slip knots. It would work the same as the "starter" row of crocheting. Does that make sense?

Cardboard would be softish but still firm, I would think. Maybe a popcicle or sucker stick?

Plastic spoon handle maybe? Not exactly soft, though.

You could try calling an exotic herp vet for advice on splinting materiel.

They make this stuff, I can't think of what it's called, but you put it on a peice of cloth, and put another peice of cloth on its back (like a sandwich) an iron over it and the two peices stick together. You can use it to iron decals and stuff on shirts. The fabric is then stiff, but still flexible. If you used thicker cloth like say denim, it would be even more stiff.

Also you can get these things that are sort of like embroidered images to sew or iron on to clothes that are really rather stuff as well, but still flexible.

Brian
Member
2274 posts
2274 posts

# Posted: 16 Mar 2006 07:02 · Edited by: Brian


You know I'd cut out the baby food now . You don't need the Ca:P ratio screwed up. I'd just use Crested Gecko Diet in it's place. Good luck with the splint.

Actually now that I think of it. If it's working the mix should be fine I guess.

TimOsborne
Member
2256 posts
2256 posts

# Posted: 16 Mar 2006 08:10 · Edited by: TimOsborne


Thank you again Tim for all your help and all the resources you've given me!!!

Don't mention it Heather.. I really hope you find something helpful amongst the information. Please keep me posted..

TimOsborne
Member
2256 posts
2256 posts

# Posted: 16 Mar 2006 08:14


Oh.. one more question... about how long does it normally take for the tail to grow back? Or will it at all? As you can see in the first picture.. he's got a nubby (bought him that way) but it doesn't seem to be getting any longer yet. (his tail was caught in the lid shortly after arriving at the pet shop. Inexperienced employee and a nervous critter)

Most of my experience is with cresties and leachies.. and their tails don't grow back. I know that the gargoyles are different from the other Rhacs in that their tails in fact will grow back. I can't tell you how long it takes.

Sh0e
Member
3185 posts
3185 posts

# Posted: 16 Mar 2006 17:06


it takes a while for the tails to regenerate. i got a male from a friend that has a regen tail. he was in with a large female and they had some issues. i didn't ask him how long it took, but he did say, "He finally grew his tail back."


Shhhhhhoe
Don't blame the question when you're the stupid one.

(superscheu at yahoo dot com)
Heather
Moderator
7561 posts
7561 posts

# Posted: 16 Mar 2006 18:05


I wasn't sure about the tail thing. I just knew that fat tailed geckos grew theirs back... so that was just an assumption on my end. Before this jaw thing he was climbing the glass just finr without the extra "pad" on the tip of his tail. So I guess it won't be any big deal if it doesn't grow back.

I found a syringe that I had for some cough syrup I had a couple moneths back... so I'm using that to help feed him now. (again, cleaned it out with boiling water and such to make sure there wasn't anything bad on it) He seems to like that better than off my finger since he doesn't have to use his tongue quite so much now. Once he gets a mouth full of food I use the tip of my finger to gently hold his lower jaw in place to help him swallow easier.

As for the splinting material... I think I may try and find the type of stuff they use in the Breathright strips. It's firm but still has a bit of give. If I can't find it at the craft store... well then I'll just get a box of Breathright strips and tear them apart LOL


* Heather *

1.1.0 Dendrobate Azureus
nuggular
Member
2847 posts
2847 posts

# Posted: 16 Mar 2006 19:07


So sry to hear about this heather. I hope all goes well. I will be keeping you and your Gecko in my thoughts until I know how it goes.

Keep us posted.


Climb on!
Sh0e
Member
3185 posts
3185 posts

# Posted: 17 Mar 2006 06:12


lots of geckos regerate their tails. the Rachs are different though. Cresties and leachies don't grow their tails back. one of my male cresties dropped his tails, they're not as good as breeders i hear with dropped tails, at least on the male end, maybe its something to do with confidence.


Shhhhhhoe
Don't blame the question when you're the stupid one.

(superscheu at yahoo dot com)
Heather
Moderator
7561 posts
7561 posts

# Posted: 17 Mar 2006 16:48


I don't think it would have much to do with confidence... but more for the fact that with a dropped tail, they now lack that extra gripping pad. Making it more difficult to hold onto the female for breeding


* Heather *

1.1.0 Dendrobate Azureus
Sh0e
Member
3185 posts
3185 posts

# Posted: 17 Mar 2006 19:30


i wasn't being serious.


Shhhhhhoe
Don't blame the question when you're the stupid one.

(superscheu at yahoo dot com)
FroggerMan909
Member
155 posts
155 posts

# Posted: 17 Mar 2006 20:11


oh i feel very sorry heather.....hopefully hell be better soon


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Heather
Moderator
7561 posts
7561 posts

# Posted: 17 Mar 2006 22:43 · Edited by: Heather


Well... we'll see how this works. I found some non-toxic, repositionable adhesive and I'm using some of the foam board that Ella plays with LOL thought it would be stable enough, yet comfprtable since there are no rough edges or anything.

So for now Dub is sporting Pink LOL

It seems to be holding his jaw straight right now


And I made sure to cut it out so that he had room to swallow and such


He doesn't seem to be minding it much at all and was SOOOO good at sitting perfectly still and not trying to get away at all while I was putting it on.

Here he is back in his hospital suite, resting comfortably on a fake leaf.

I switched from the fake pothos because there seemed to be too much that he could get himself hung up on and pull the splint off.

As you can see from this shot... he's still able to open his mouth, but the jaw is now held straight. He isn't opening it very wide, but I did see him lick his eye for the first time since this happened. So I'm takng that as a good sign.


I'm still going to feed him with the syring and drip treated water on his eyes a few times a day to just be sure he doesn't dry out. But so far he doesn't seem bothered by it at all. Later this evening I'll mash up a cricket for him to give him a lil meat and something different than the baby food.

Opinions... how's he lookin?


* Heather *

1.1.0 Dendrobate Azureus
taddies
Member
459 posts
459 posts

# Posted: 17 Mar 2006 23:21


So sorry Heather!
I don't know much about this subject but just from looking at him I think the splint would work great!
Hope he gets better soon!
Love from Leela xxx


4.0.0 Litoria Caerulea
yellowboy
Member
438 posts
438 posts

# Posted: 18 Mar 2006 00:24


wow looks like you did a good job on that splint...I hope it heals up good

shoe....lechianus does regenerate its tail, cresties don't but the lech I cared for started tailess it took a loooong time but it did grow back.

Heather...the gargoyle supposedly does regrow but that pad at the end of the tail will not be functional on the new tail

Heather
Moderator
7561 posts
7561 posts

# Posted: 18 Mar 2006 00:42


Well that's cool... I wasn't sure. It's so confusing sometimes LOL Some do, some don't... ya just never know LOL But it'll be cool if he does get his tail back someday... as you can see from the third pic (second set) he does have a pretty stubby little tail. It does move though and he does still try to use it when holding onto my hand.

Right now, all I care about is his jaw healing. I really really really hope that I can do good by him and get him through this!!


* Heather *

1.1.0 Dendrobate Azureus
Brian
Member
2274 posts
2274 posts

# Posted: 18 Mar 2006 06:42


Do you use a UV light?

Why not try and feed it crested/gargoyle gecko diet via syringe?

TimOsborne
Member
2256 posts
2256 posts

# Posted: 18 Mar 2006 07:12


Heather.. you make a great nurse! When I am feeling bad can I come stay with you?

Seriously though.. crested diet is great.. or I know some people that use a meat based baby food for the protein instead of mashing insects.. just a thought for ya.. unless you enjoy squishing the bugs!

anyway.. once again.. good luck to you and speedy recover to the pink dub!

Heather
Moderator
7561 posts
7561 posts

# Posted: 19 Mar 2006 04:14 · Edited by: Heather


LOL

I have to report that this evening, Dub seems to be doing VERY well. He's got his full appitite back from what I can tell... ate nearly a whole teaspoon of food mix!!! He's been keeping his pale colors (he'd turn dark before if I'd pick him up... not to mention crap all over my hand LOL) which are more of a rosey color with darker markings. And now he seems to actually like being picked up... no soiling in my hand, no growling at me and actually climbs up into my hand now. It's GREAT!!! He really really wants to climb... but the splint is keeping him from being able to climb the glass and I don't have anything in the tank for him to get up on really right now. But I think he can wait until he's healed and the splint comes off.

Anyone on here that has known me and what I've done for my critters knows that I'm definitely not afraid to make some cricket and waxworm soup if needed. Dub didn't seem interested in it though... he seems perfectly happy with his mango and honey juice LOL I've been adding just a little calcium powder to the mix, but not every day. I don't want to overdo it.

But overall, things are looking promising! I'm so happy!!!! He's more active again and very alert and his jaw is looking so nice and straight again!!

I will take more pictures sometime tomorrow after Ella and I get back from the zoo.

BTW Brian, He had a UV light on his main tank but not on the hospital tank. Though the bulb that I have on him right now is a full spec, low watt.


* Heather *

1.1.0 Dendrobate Azureus
squeekyfrog
Member
513 posts
513 posts

# Posted: 19 Mar 2006 04:43


Sounds like everything is going well- good job!!
Way to be resourceful; using what you have around already in a way it wasn't initially intented- the splint looks great and sounds like it is working as needed. SO happy to hear the good news; keep everyone updated


Lumpy Dumpy, male WTF age ~6
Brian
Member
2274 posts
2274 posts

# Posted: 19 Mar 2006 21:43


I was just going to say that the reason I suggested CGD is that the fruit can be high in phos. and you don't want that for a healing bone. They probably do have UV/D3 synth abilities, but as we know geckos don't need them. But yours might benefit while it heals.

Jovian
Member
36 posts
36 posts

# Posted: 20 Mar 2006 02:16


Wow Heather this is some impressive thread. You sure have done a lot for Dub and im sure he is very thankful having such a caring owner like you =) BTW he is a pretty one, I love his colorings.

JasperF
Member
28 posts
28 posts

# Posted: 20 Mar 2006 20:47


I've been following this thread for some days now, and I want to tell you that you are the ultimate keeper. The way that you took the care of this gecko upon you makes me feel humble. Excuse my language, I'm from the Netherlands


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