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talk to the frog / Help / Extreme MBD - White's Tree Frog
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Ptolemy
Member
37 posts
37 posts

# Posted: 16 Aug 2011 18:47


Hello everyone.

I have 2 White's Tree Frogs. The older male has been living in a healthy environment for over a year now, the female for about 8 or 9 months. They both thrive. I know lots of you ask what the environment is like... suffice it to say surroundings are not an issue. Huge, clean, and perfectly regulated.

Even though I have been correctly dusting crickets with calcium and d3 ever since I got the male, in addition to gut-loading them, he has developed MBD. It seemed to get really bad really fast. He was quite a chunker (but not obese), so it was hard to tell that his spine was getting so misshapen. He was never a huge eater (especially next to the female, who would eat anything), so that was not a concern for me until yesterday. Not only did he refuse to eat, but he stayed awake all day. Then, he fell from the glass onto the bedding and stayed there throughout the evening without moving.

I have repeatedly tried to get him to eat. I moved him into a smaller tank and tried to make him as comfy as possible: keep him moist, wash off the dirt he fell into with a q-tip, etc.

The sad thing is... now that he hasn't eaten in a while, he's getting really skinny. His spine is protruding a LOT and he doesn't have any energy.

He just lays there and breaths, staring at the ground. I do not want him to die of starvation. I know it would be long and painful. I am debating euthanizing him with the orajel-freezer method. At least he won't be in pain and he can die in his sleep.

But I figured I would ask for any last-minute advice. I have been sooo attentive to these guys. If there's any chance of him surviving I want to take it. But watching him suffer also takes its tole.

Thanks.

jwthought81
Member
292 posts
292 posts

# Posted: 16 Aug 2011 21:07


Sorry to hear all this...
when was the last time he ate? If it's been awhile ( like a month or more) and he looks that bad, perhaps a force feed might be in order. I'm normally not a big fan of this due the stress it causes, but if you feel that he may be on his way out anyway, it could be worth a shot.

As for the MBD, how old was the supplement you used? What type(s)/brands? They do expire after around 6 months.

Pics?
Good Luck.


Josh
1.1.2 Azureus,
2.3.2000? WTF
Ptolemy
Member
37 posts
37 posts

# Posted: 16 Aug 2011 21:16


Thanks for the response!

I have been using the same dusting supplement for the past year. It's called Miner-All by Sticky Tongue Farms. It has no expiration date, so I assumed it was good.

It has been about 2.5-3 weeks since the guy ate. And I have tried opening his mouth, but it's closed tights. Since breakage of the jaw is one of the common results of MDB, I don't want to force it.

And even if I do get it, I doubt he'll have the energy to swallow. I read about others who tried during these late stages, and the crickets just sat there in their mouth. Eventually, they had to be removed.

jwthought81
Member
292 posts
292 posts

# Posted: 17 Aug 2011 01:29


Yeah most supplements expire about 6 months after they are opened.

You might be able to get the mouth open by carefully wedging something real thin, like a credit card, in there. If you have access to any syringes maybe you could puree some bugs and get some of it in his mouth that way.

The best bet would then be a vet visit, although to be honest it doesn't sound like the outlook is too good on this one.

Best wishes


Josh
1.1.2 Azureus,
2.3.2000? WTF
Sandy_Bear
Member
1842 posts
1842 posts

# Posted: 17 Aug 2011 03:03


This is Big's video on how to force feed a frog.

Video on how to force feed a frog

If he won't eat the bugs, you can try the Repta-Aid. Be sure to check the box so it says "carnivore" as they do make a supplement for herbivores too.
Repta Aid by Flukers

If you haven't read this article yet, I recommend reading it. It's about Amphibian Euthanasia
Euthanasia

Jawsofafrog
Member
1242 posts
1242 posts

# Posted: 17 Aug 2011 07:47


I am hoping your frog recovers! Sorry to hear.


1.0.0 Tanimbar Island Blue Tongue Skink T. scincoides chimaerea Silver Phase
0.1.0 Variable King snake Lampropeltis Thayeri Mexicana
0.0.1 Western Hognose snake Heterodon nasicus
2.0.0 Green tree frog Hyla
Ptolemy
Member
37 posts
37 posts

# Posted: 17 Aug 2011 17:56


Update: I have had no luck in feeding him. I am VERY reluctant to move him, especially since that would likely fracture a few bones. As for the moment, he is sitting in his smaller tank without moving at all except for breathing. I am going to attempt to inject some food and calcium power into his mouth with a syringe. I hope this helps.

I will keep you guys updated.

Ptolemy
Member
37 posts
37 posts

# Posted: 18 Aug 2011 19:54


Still no luck with eating. His mouth will NOT open up unless I force as severely as it showed in the video... something which I want to avoid. However, he has propped himself up against the water bowl and it looks like he defecated at the other end of the small tank overnight... so he must be moving a LITTLE.

I will try feeding him again tonight when I feed the female. I got some brand new dusting powder, so I'm hoping it will help.

jwthought81
Member
292 posts
292 posts

# Posted: 18 Aug 2011 23:37


Im not sure about the dosage, but my vet once recommended a pedialyte bath? It was so long ago, i really dont recall the procedure, tho. Maybe look into something like that. Has anyone ever heard of this?

Keep fightin the good fight.


Josh
1.1.2 Azureus,
2.3.2000? WTF
Sandy_Bear
Member
1842 posts
1842 posts

# Posted: 19 Aug 2011 02:49


but my vet once recommended a pedialyte bath?
Make sure that it's UNflavoured pedialyte. I think it may be 1part pedialyte to 10 parts water

Ptolemy
Member
37 posts
37 posts

# Posted: 19 Aug 2011 03:15


I'm sad to report that my little guy didn't make it.

I tried to feed him with a syringe using the Repta-Aid recommended above, but I guess it was too late.

Thank you for all of your help and suggestions, guys. This came on so suddenly. I'm really going to miss hearing him croak every night...

But I am hoping for a happy and healthy life for my girl.

Jawsofafrog
Member
1242 posts
1242 posts

# Posted: 19 Aug 2011 03:45


Rest in Peace. Sorry to hear.
Your female never had MBD? I wonder how your other frog got it?


1.0.0 Tanimbar Island Blue Tongue Skink T. scincoides chimaerea Silver Phase
0.1.0 Variable King snake Lampropeltis Thayeri Mexicana
0.0.1 Western Hognose snake Heterodon nasicus
2.0.0 Green tree frog Hyla
Ptolemy
Member
37 posts
37 posts

# Posted: 22 Aug 2011 19:34


I got him several months before I got the female, and he was a lot older when I got him than her to begin with. She was the size of my thumbnail when she came home with me. So it must have been his poor nutrition during those first few months.

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