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talk to the frog / Help / Necrotic tissue?
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jesse kooiman
Member
1079 posts
1079 posts

# Posted: 4 Jun 2010 23:04 · Edited by: jesse kooiman


One of my P. otilophus has dark "bruised" marks on all of its "points" i.e. eyes, "hips", "knees" etc. These marks are black. I thought this was common scarring until it got worse. More worrisome however, are clotted blood "blisters" on most of its' rear toepads. Each toepad is red and filled with blood, not swollen though. Please refer back to some of my earlier posts about coming back from the dead. It's almost like it suffered "frostbite". I'm worried that these extremities didn't get enough blood flow when the frog was in that weird near-death stasis, and might be necrotic.

I spent 15 minutes with a digital camera from work trying to get pics, the thing didn't have macro, and the quality was absurd, so i gave up.

Hope no one says Red Leg The frog is eating, and is active. Thanks, JK


jesse?
Eric Walker
Member
809 posts
809 posts

# Posted: 4 Jun 2010 23:56


what is red leg?

even poor pics would be better than none for something like this.
sorry I can't be of any help

I have told all my frogs to say a bedtime prayer for him though. good luck

you had more than one that survived the shipping fiasco right? did you seperate them yet. if not it would be a good idea.

jesse kooiman
Member
1079 posts
1079 posts

# Posted: 5 Jun 2010 01:03


Thanks for the response Eric, the image of your frogs all lined up, going nitey nite, and praying for my frog made me smile!

The camera was garbage. My cell takes better pics than it did, but i would need a macro for the toepads.

I have pics on my cell, but don't have the adapter to go from it to the laptop. I could text it, but i would think anyone would be nuts to give their cell out over the net.

I have two frogs so far, the other one also has black marks, but not nearly as bad.

I'm actually growing very alarmed, i think i'll seperate them tonight, but both have the bruising, anyways thats what i THOUGHT it was. I'm worried that a bacteria might have taken hold in shipping bruises.

I try to lower the humidity, but then they wig out.

Redleg is a nasty disease, with pooled up, clotted blood on the lowermost extremities. I'm not an expert though. I realized that without pics i would be SOL, but i tried.


jesse?
Ed Kowalski
Member
244 posts
244 posts

# Posted: 5 Jun 2010 01:40


Redleg is a nasty disease, with pooled up, clotted blood on the lowermost extremities. I'm not an expert though. I realized that without pics i would be SOL, but i tried.


Red leg is actually a symptom (although some references call it a syndrome) of one or more problems. The reason it is a symptom is because these are caused by a number of different problems such as septicemia (caused by more than 10-15 different bacteria), viremias (different viral infections), and chemical burns (to name a couple).
Often people see redness on the ventral surface of the amphibian and diagnose it as red leg, when this could also be due to irritation, localized infection (as opposed to a systemic wide infection), poor circulation due to poor circulation due to other causes, or even after death when the blood pools in the lowest portion of the frog.

Ed

jesse kooiman
Member
1079 posts
1079 posts

# Posted: 5 Jun 2010 01:58


Gosh Ed, you're a plethora of information! Please stick around!!!

Your name is familiar to me, i used to frequent caudate forums, but no sallies currently.

Thanks, very much, explains a lot. I think some damage has occured to my frogs via their exposure to very low temps. Thank you, very much! Very appreciated! JK


jesse?
Eric Walker
Member
809 posts
809 posts

# Posted: 5 Jun 2010 02:05 · Edited by: Eric Walker


Ed is a very helpful person

thanks for chiming in Ed

jesse kooiman
Member
1079 posts
1079 posts

# Posted: 5 Jun 2010 02:59


paired my laptop with my bluetooth. very confusing, so any help would be appreciatd!


jesse?
meyers kristina
Member
1484 posts
1484 posts

# Posted: 5 Jun 2010 08:34


im hopelessly bluetooth iliterate bud. you can send via text message and i may be able to post if i can figure out a way to get it to my email and onto the photobucket?

both my websites have my contact info


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meyers kristina
Member
1484 posts
1484 posts

# Posted: 5 Jun 2010 08:38


not sure there would be red spots soley from shipping. I would attribute it to some kind of bacteria either curable or incurable and same goes for viral. the most worry would be the symptoms of red leg like ed stated, mycobacteriosis ( incurable death sentence in frogs) or rana virus to name a few of the worst case scenarios. hoping and its bad hoping this that its simply a bacterial infection that can be cured with something like baytril and a lil SSD ointment. i guess if they were on top of an icepack...havent read the psot sorry! then it could be from shipping? then it'd be a matter of getting it to heal and preventing any bacterial infections. may scar but scarring is better than worse happening. sorry for long winded post.


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jesse kooiman
Member
1079 posts
1079 posts

# Posted: 5 Jun 2010 16:01


Is that a cell on your website kristina? I'll text some pics if you say it's ok. Seems kinda weird to me!

Sorry, i'm paranoid and a little overly polite.


jesse?
Ed Kowalski
Member
244 posts
244 posts

# Posted: 5 Jun 2010 17:00


While there aren't any pictures up yet, I wouldn't rule out shipping damage as of yet. Place a small ball insider of a fruit fly cup and bounce it around. If one pictures the frog as the small ball with legs look at the impact points...
Now this does not mean that the resulting damage and stress has not resulted in an infection...

If it does have an infection you may want to check out resistence to enrofloxacin as this has been starting to appear in a lot of venues.

Ed

meyers kristina
Member
1484 posts
1484 posts

# Posted: 5 Jun 2010 20:34


hey ed can you let me know what other really good antibiotics safe other than baytril are out there? i have some noserubs myself and they seemed to get better with full fledged baytril treatments then worse. argggh

yep jesse go ahead and send to that number l;isted on ym website. i will see what i can do. dont worry not a stalker here and my # is public knowledge lol so its obviously just a cell phone;)


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Ed Kowalski
Member
244 posts
244 posts

# Posted: 5 Jun 2010 20:59


If you are having problems with a nose rub, getting an impression smear can also show you if it is mainly a bacterial infection or if there is a secondary infection with some other problems (like fungi).

With noserubs, depending on the severity I have had good luck using gentamicin opthalmic solution, and silver sufadiazine. Amikacin coadministered with pipercillin (injectable) is a good old fashioned standby as they have a strong synergistic effect when combined and for the newer users Timentin (ticarcillin/clavulanate)which has to be administed as an injectable.

Ed Kowalski
Member
244 posts
244 posts

# Posted: 5 Jun 2010 20:59


I should add that I left out baytril as it was already discussed but it can also be effective.

Ed

meyers kristina
Member
1484 posts
1484 posts

# Posted: 5 Jun 2010 21:46


gotcha. yeah baytril not hitting it...fearing i may have to get it swabbed at the como zoo vet and it gets pricey there. i've been doing baytril and SSD so frustrating at times. now the gent seems more easily obtained. of course i can suggest the others too to the vet as well. thanks for the response ed ;)

and jesse truly hoping that those sores can be figured out and go away, i know how much it sux to be in the position of worrying and not knowing...not fun.


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Ed Kowalski
Member
244 posts
244 posts

# Posted: 5 Jun 2010 22:01


Hi Kristina,

Instead of swabbing it, press a slide to it, and then if you can check it under the scope.

Ed

meyers kristina
Member
1484 posts
1484 posts

# Posted: 5 Jun 2010 22:11


i do have a scope here. that would be incredibly easy. perhaps i can get a good shot of it via camera.


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jesse kooiman
Member
1079 posts
1079 posts

# Posted: 5 Jun 2010 23:01


Alrighty Kristina, i sent those pics around 4 my time, work your magic!

Now i know i'm hot and charming, but don't you be calling me non-stop now y'hear?!!!!!!!


jesse?
meyers kristina
Member
1484 posts
1484 posts

# Posted: 6 Jun 2010 01:46


!!!!!! trying to get them into my email! showing up as vids hopefully we can get them looking as pics. seen the way they arrived! omg jessie! not your fault shippers!


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jesse kooiman
Member
1079 posts
1079 posts

# Posted: 6 Jun 2010 03:28


Thank you so much for trying Kristina! I'm really appreciative, you know that, at least you know what i'm talking about.

I applied some neosporin, but i think these are bruises from frantically trying to escape the deli cup. You saw the pic, so you know what i mean.

I do not blame the guy who shipped these at all. He is a very, very courteous fella. He is going to send me replacements, and even offered to send me an extra for my troubles. Should have shipped in seperate containers with more to grab ahold of, but thats an easy mistake, and the 30 degree temps were most catastrophic i believe.

Once again, thanks kristina, you didn't need to waste so much effort on my poor 'ole frog!


jesse?
meyers kristina
Member
1484 posts
1484 posts

# Posted: 6 Jun 2010 06:52


oh jesse no problem! hey what are froggy friends for LOL!! i am the kind of person always willing to try to help in any way when it comes to these precious gems.

i saw the pics...hold....looking again so i can best tell you what i think....wow in saw the bloody toe pads. is it like a blood filled toe pad top and bottom? hard to tell on tiny cell. as for the other marks i'd say scar tissue or the normal nose rubs etc which if you talked to an amphibian vet im sure would
prescribe SSD ointment and possibly baytril just in case.


and hey no wasted effort here bud. i'm very passionate about the hobby will always have a lot to learn but i have also learned a lot . anything i can do just holler!


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