TheFrog.org  
 · Forums · Statistics · Search · Post Count morphs

talk to the frog / Help / Grey Tree Frog Molting W/Muscel Spasms?
<< . 1 . 2 .
Author Message
bschwinn
Member
2594 posts
2594 posts

# Posted: 5 Mar 2011 16:50


Michaels Crafts stores have silk foliage that can pass for real foliage, also not every one can grow plants so it is a good alternate. Another thing to consider is with soil in real plants there is a real possibility of exposing the frogs to various bacteria, fungus, parasites etc.

Kevins Mom
Member
20 posts
20 posts

# Posted: 5 Mar 2011 19:28 · Edited by: Moderator


thanx for all the additional info...the mold on the wood was black...it was black spots that looked like mildew...i could not imagine that was okay to leave in the tank.

I know rolley-pollies well...did not know they were like fresh water aquarium snails as far as being a clean up crew. i will try to find some captive bread ones for sale.

i like real plants better than fake plants. we have fake plants, because they are low maintenance, but if i'm going to be participating in the hobby then the tank will be on display in the living room and i would certainly prefer real plants....so what do you do Sandy Bear?...do you pot them? I already have several 'snake plants' i could use...could you take a pic of your set up so I can see how you have your tank set up with the live plants.

so what about the substrate?...how do you go about maintaining that with the plants? i'm pretty clueless on the whole thing, sorry. we have just been cleaning the whole 10 gallon tank weekly and completely replacing the mulch (which we won't be using anymore). i get the wiping up the poop off the walls and rocks and stuff...but you had said something about cleaning the tank once a month...i like that idea very much. please teach me!

i would use something sterile for potting...like the coco coir, that i will be using for the substrate. plants like the ones Sandy Bear suggested would do fine. as long as it's humid and the plants are watered with a hydro nutrient solution occaisonally they should thrive. i have a super green thumb...except when it comes to submerged aquarium plants with fish....adding 1 part hydrogen peroxide to 4 parts water with the fertilizer to water plants will control bacteria, and fungus...just in case any one wanted to know, and the plants love the extra oxygen.


dfeatherlly
Sandy_Bear
Member
1842 posts
1842 posts

# Posted: 5 Mar 2011 22:32


Soil: as far as soil goes, you want to find something that doesn't have any chemical fertilizers in it. What I do with it is "sterilize" it.
If you are doing a small amount you can nuke it in the microwave. Basically you want to take the amount of soil you need and place it in a microwave safe dish. Add some water to it. Microwave on high until the temperature of the dirt reaches 82C or 180F.
If you are doing a large amount, then you can bake it in the oven. Use a second hand turkey roaster or a disposable one. Fill it with the dirt that you will need and bake about 300F until the internal temperature reaches 180F or 82C.
Now I say that you want to bake it until it reaches 180F/82C because that is the temperature that cooks chicken. And to me if it's hot enough to to kill the salmonella on chicken, chances are it's hot enough to kill the stuff in the dirt.
You will want to let this cool before it comes into contact with your frogs or the plants.

My soil mixtures vary in my different terrariums depending on what types of frogs I have in each tank. These are things that I have used:
"Sterile" dirt
Coco-Fiber
Reptile Bark
Sphagnum Moss
Aquarium Pebbles
Leca balls Hydro Balls by ZooMed
Fiberglass bug screen
Egg Crate
Perlite

Now dirt mixtures like Perlite, Bark, Sphanum Moss, Pebbles are to be used on the bottom/middle layers of dirt. They are not to be used in the top layer as they can pose an impaction risk to the frogs should they be swallowed.

Egg crate and Hydro Balls are usually used in the bottom layer for drainage. you don't need both, just one or the other. You would put the fiberglass bugging screen on top of either of these so there isn't any excess dirt dropping through.

Coco-Fiber would be the top layer. It can also be in the middle layer. You can also buy or make your own "leaf litter".
To make your won leaf litter, you have to collect leaves, ie oak, and bake them in the oven, to kill off any nasties that may be on them. I would bake them on low, say 200F maybe and keep an eye on them. I'm not sure they they have to be pressed flat first.

Potting plants. This is entirely up to you. Some people only do potted plants, some will plant them in the tank. I usually pot the plants when it's in a frogs tank that likes to dig, ex, Pacman frogs, dwarf pyxies. That way the plant isn't being dug up every night.
As for pots, If the pot is going to be exposed, I used an all glazed pot. If they pot is going to be submerged under water, or buried in the dirt, I use a terracotta pot.

Moldy log: Just give it a quick wash with some bleach water. Rinse well, and bake it in the oven for a couple of hours on 300F. That should get it clean again for you.

Adding Real Plants: Before you add any plants to your viv, you need to clean them. First you want to get rid of all that dirt that the plant came with. Make sure to (gently) wash off all the dirt from the roots of the plant. Next you want to fill up the sink with a mixture of bleach (1 part) and water (9 parts). Make sure that all of the plant becomes submerged in this mixture - roots & all. Most plants will tolerate this treatment, just be sure to rinse really well afterwards. When I do the bleaching part, they are only held under for about a minute, then I spend about 5 rinsing them off good. I usually have 2 sinks filled, one for bleaching, one for rinsing.

Adding fertilizer: Be careful what products you choose to be fertilizers. As they may harm your frogs. Do lots of research and ask around what other use to fertilize their plants in their frog terrariums. I personally don't use anything, just water and frog poop.
*I watched that Dirty Jobs episode a while back on Ghann's Cricket farm, and apparently cricket poop makes a really good soil additive/fertilizer. - which I'm sure would be safe for frogs.


I will take some pictures of my terrariums tomorrow, and get them posted for you asap.

Kevins Mom
Member
20 posts
20 posts

# Posted: 5 Mar 2011 23:09


I never thought putting a permanent bottom. I think I will do some research on how to create and maintain a terrarium...then just add the frogs and the bugs. Well, I'm excited all over again.

A word about sterilizing dirt/potting soil with heat, in case someone else wants to do it. Soil should be heated between 180 and 200 degreese F, I use a meat thermometer. Do not exceed 200 degrees as temps above this can create toxins that are harmful to plants...and if they're bad for plants I'm sure they'd be bad for animals.

We tossed the $17 moldy peice of wood in the fire pit last summer :P

I can't wait to see your pics Sandy Bear!


dfeatherlly
Sandy_Bear
Member
1842 posts
1842 posts

# Posted: 6 Mar 2011 01:35 · Edited by: Sandy_Bear


The Frogs, How to Set up a False Bottom

Just in case you haven't seen this yet

Kevins Mom
Member
20 posts
20 posts

# Posted: 6 Mar 2011 02:53


<heavy sigh> He's spazing again. Looks like i will have to make him take vitamin water sitz baths for a while. I was hoping for a turd today..no such luck. He seemed so much better yesterday, but still no climbing. I don't think he jumped in to his water today...he did yesterday...but the water had no vitamins, it was just water. The vitamin soak seemed to do the trick...but I was hoping the vitamin coated cricket would make the vitamin water unnecessary. Guess not! CRAP!

God, please make Buddah better. AMEN


dfeatherlly
Sandy_Bear
Member
1842 posts
1842 posts

# Posted: 6 Mar 2011 03:56


Do you have any access to syringes? You could make a slurry with the calcium powder and inject the crickets with it.
I had to do that with de-worming medicine for my whites tree frog before.

bschwinn
Member
2594 posts
2594 posts

# Posted: 6 Mar 2011 04:08


I thought you realized that recovery will take time. This condition did not happen overnite and recovery will not either. Dust his food and do the soaks, it will take time.Now you say vitamin, You do realize you are dealing with the need for Calcium, not in many vitamins.

Kevins Mom
Member
20 posts
20 posts

# Posted: 6 Mar 2011 04:26


yep...the calcium sup i got has vitamins also. they had a calcium only sup...but i got the one that had vitamins also, besides...no one had the form of calcium you recommended. and nope...i thought once i got him to stop twitching and he was eating suplement dusted crickets he'd at least not go back to spazing. i know now. hope it's not too late...i have water conditoner...and super hard water. i can try that...with the suplement i had success with before. he's really bad off. the spasms are affecting his core now. i will be surprised if he's alive in the morning.


dfeatherlly
bschwinn
Member
2594 posts
2594 posts

# Posted: 6 Mar 2011 05:23


Sorry to hear that, just so you know disturbing him will set off those seizures so try to leave him isolated except for treatments. Good luck! Bill

Kevins Mom
Member
20 posts
20 posts

# Posted: 6 Mar 2011 06:32


ty you bill. right now he is in very shallow water in the small container that the other frogs came home in...the lid is on. it's a bit opaque...so i hope it keep him from worrying about me checking in on him. oh, about 2 hours ago...i had to flip him back over on his stomach about every 10 minutes, poor little guy. He hasn't flipped himself over for a good hour now. it's 12:28 pm my time, I had tried pulverizing egg shells and was going to make calcium citrate with the lemon I had just squeezed...but the stainless steel herb grinder I had purchased sometime ago, turns out to be aluminum...it would have taken until morning to make the stuff anyway. so i'm headed to the store for some calcium citrate tablets.

one thing i can say...it's technically morning, and he's still alive.


dfeatherlly
bschwinn
Member
2594 posts
2594 posts

# Posted: 6 Mar 2011 06:53


Just curious, where are you located?

Kevins Mom
Member
20 posts
20 posts

# Posted: 6 Mar 2011 08:56 · Edited by: Moderator


i'm in minnesota. it's almost 3 am now.

I got some calcium citrate tablets and ground them up, then disolved the powder in water. it seems to want to settle to the bottom. i have half a mind to get an eye dropper an baste him like a turkey.

he flipped himself over while i was warming up the jeep b4 i left to go to the store. I flipped him back to his stomach, and flew to the 24 hour grocery store. thankfully he was still right side up when i got home.

I'd say he's been in the calcium fortified bath for about an hour. the spasms seemed to have eased. the leg that would stretch straight out is still twitching and moving around a bit...but it's not shooting straight out any more...or at least it hasn't in a while. his other leg doesn't seem to show any twitching at all...that is until he sees me or hear me when i'm checking in on him. that side of his stomach is still quivering, but his stomach on the twitchy leg side is calm.

if i see his guts calm down an stop quivering, i may try to get some sleep. however, i will watch him until this happens as it seems to be the violent core spasms that's flipping him over. and i just don't think he would live to flip himself back over.

i nursed two pups through parvo...of course i was much younger then...and had a vets advice. but he only gave them a 2% chance of survival. i'm just as determined to keep this lil frog alive. there is some improvement in his condition...what am i saying?!?! there's a lot of improvement! if i can get him back to where he was yesterday night, i will not make the mistake of thinking he's just dandy until he starts eating and pooping and climbing the walls.

Do you have any access to syringes? You could make a slurry with the calcium powder and inject the crickets with it.

i just now saw this Sandy Bear. i don't have any on hand...but i bet i could get some. i rehabbed a baby squirrel a few summers ago, and had no trouble getting syringes to feed it...i didn't need the needless, but they came with the syringes...and the parmacy gave them to me for free!

i really think that if it isn't already too late...the baths are working. i just need to put him in the calcium water....i had stopped doing that becasue i thought he was out of the woods.

i think i will break the legs and mist the cricket w/h2o b4 i roll the bug in the supplement. this should cake more on it, and keep it from moving around and knocking the dust off. but i will get the syringes just in case.

and thanks for yet another tip!

I'm delighted to report all signs of spasm and twitching have stopped... the bath definately worked. I would not doubt at this moment that he could have been dehydrated as well as being calcium deficient. I will probably soak him at least a half hour twice a day for a while, and of course keep the water in his bowl fortified...probably indefinately.

Thank You Bill, Sandy, and God


dfeatherlly
AgalychnisCallidryas
Member
942 posts
942 posts

# Posted: 6 Mar 2011 20:19


Congrats!


-Liam

3.0.0 Agalychnis callidryas
2.0.0 Litoria caerulea
1.1.0 Rhacodactylus ciliatus
Kevins Mom
Member
20 posts
20 posts

# Posted: 6 Mar 2011 20:43


YAY!!!!!!! the baby made a poopy!

a nice black firm looking large poopy! just like old times! i am elated...i thought for sure he was a goner last night.

Thank you God, for answering my prayer!

i got some magnesium citrate and mixed a little less than the recommended 2:1 ca:mg ratio to aid in the absorbtion of the calcium...might have helped to make the poopy, it certainly made the spasms stop quicker than what i had been using alone (i added the ca mg concoction to the sup water he was already in)...i still cannot believe he recovered from last night!


dfeatherlly
Sandy_Bear
Member
1842 posts
1842 posts

# Posted: 7 Mar 2011 04:39 · Edited by: Sandy_Bear


Divinia, I posted some of my terrarium pics on a new thread if you want to have a look. Some of the pictures turned out sideways though, so I'll have to see if the BF can fix that for me:

Terrarium Pics

ParaguayanGirl5
Member
4 posts
4 posts

# Posted: 13 Jan 2013 07:43


PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME!!! This is happening to my frogs now. HELP!!! The Chytrid disease killed my frogs once and it took me forever to figure out what it was and now I got all new stuff, all new frogs, everything.

Now a TOTALLY DIFFERENT set of symptoms are hitting them so i thought it was NOT the same disease at all!! They were having diarrhea so my vet gave me worm oral meds and 2 other meds as well to help with other parasites found in their stool. The only thing was... They started to have those seizures!!!! HELP!!!! PLEASE!!!

I had 3 new White's. 2 have died. One seems to be doing well. Now my two beloved Tomato frogs are showing signs of weak back legs, lethargy, and now I've witnessed them both having seizures. I'm so so sad....

I have one Albino Pacman and I adore him and he's not showing signs yet but I'm giving him the meds from the vet just in case.

Is there ANYTHING I CAN DO!!!....or are all of my frogs gonna die...


Love & Hops!
bschwinn
Member
2594 posts
2594 posts

# Posted: 17 Jan 2013 05:36


start a separate thread listing the frogs and ailments, caging and feeding for each. symptoms for each. are any living together etc.?

<< . 1 . 2 .
This thread is closed. You can't post a reply.
 

talk to the frog / Help / Grey Tree Frog Molting W/Muscel Spasms?
 · Forums · Statistics · Search · Post Count morphs


Powered by miniBB forum software © 2001-2017