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talk to the frog / General / Mixing
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wjc883
Member
19 posts
19 posts

# Posted: 11 Feb 2004 22:53


well why is it such a big deal if i were to have a tree frog and then guppies in the water... i think that oppinion is a little off there buddy

Whitney
Moderator
2241 posts
2241 posts

# Posted: 11 Feb 2004 22:59 · Edited by: Whitney


Fish foul the water, frog absorbs the water and waste. I've done fish and frogs before, and it takes an immense ammount of work to keep water quality where it should be. Upwards of a half hour a day. If you have more than one tank to manage, then it's quite a handful.


<-- Say, can I have some of your purple berries? <--
Frogbert
Moderator
2424 posts
2424 posts

# Posted: 11 Feb 2004 23:05


wjc883
If you would have followed the advice of the people who posted before me and read the entire thread, You would see why I tried to make it simple for you. I figured I would give you the discussion in a nut shell.

I am glad you called me buddy, it shows that you have a friendly nature.

Thanks Buddy,


"Lead a life of purpose, Kindness being the first." ME

"The life of the individual has meaning only in so far as it aids in the making the life of every living thing nobeler and more beautiful" Albert Einstein
wjc883
Member
19 posts
19 posts

# Posted: 11 Feb 2004 23:07


fish dont foul water if you have a pump! and its not bad for the frogs to absorb water with fish fecies in it... its more natural then anything. U must have had a pretty bad set up for you to have to clean your tank about 30 minutes every day... and another thing... why does everyone on this site focus on what the pet stores are doing? that isn't helping anyone who wants to learn about frogs

wjc883
Member
19 posts
19 posts

# Posted: 11 Feb 2004 23:08


well i read it and all it said was how bad pet stores are... very informative

Whitney
Moderator
2241 posts
2241 posts

# Posted: 11 Feb 2004 23:21 · Edited by: Whitney


...wow...okay. Pumps do absolutely nothing to aid in correcting water quality. Even foam and charcoal filter can and will get overloaded and stop being productive. And it is bad and not natural for frogs to absorb waste, their own and anthing elses, and the water that you have cycling in your tank that is loaded with ammonia and nitrates is not even comparable to the water found in a pond or stream in nature.
And for you to try to tell us what we focus on and you have only been a member for a few hours is a little absurd. But what does one expect given the statements you just made...


<-- Say, can I have some of your purple berries? <--
wjc883
Member
19 posts
19 posts

# Posted: 11 Feb 2004 23:24


hmm, well im just trying to find a way to use up all of my vivarium with some pets, i have been looking and reading all these posts and all it says is a bunch of negitive things about mixing anything, which i see why its bad but i have a nice tank and i dont want like 1 frog to sit in the middle of it and do nothing... and so your saying that all aquariums are going to have waste in them and need to be cleaned for about 30 minutes every day... because i dont get why its such a big deal at all... guppies are like 1 inch long what harm could they seriously do

Whitney
Moderator
2241 posts
2241 posts

# Posted: 11 Feb 2004 23:30 · Edited by: Whitney


Frogs eliminate in water. Fish produce a lot of waste for their small size, and that waste breaks down. Ammonia and other harmful chemicals build up. Frog feces must be scooped out daily. The water quality much be checked daily as well, and more often than not, partial water changes are needed to keep it in check. All of this takes time. Are you getting this cycle yet?


<-- Say, can I have some of your purple berries? <--
Whitney
Moderator
2241 posts
2241 posts

# Posted: 11 Feb 2004 23:31


And frogs sit and do nothing in the wild. They wont be any more happy with company. You still havnt even said what size tank you have.


<-- Say, can I have some of your purple berries? <--
wjc883
Member
19 posts
19 posts

# Posted: 11 Feb 2004 23:32


yeah i get the cycle... but i would say i had a tree frog... how often would it spend time in the water side of my tank... i could just put a little dish in there for him which i already have, but do you have any idea's on what type of frog i would be looking for because you seem like you know alot about what your talking about and i respect that... sorry to come off mean before... but alot of people were comming of negative before and some people called other people psycho for sending a picture of a frog eating

Whitney
Moderator
2241 posts
2241 posts

# Posted: 11 Feb 2004 23:42 · Edited by: Whitney


Hey, it's no problem. We all wanted mixed tanks when we first started, but the longer we stay in the hobby the more you realize how volitile the situation can be. I tried it in a 40 tall when I first started, and my Whites stayed in the water portion all of the time. One even took to staying completely submerged with just his nostrils above the water line. Most frogs would seek the comforts of the large body of water, and if they have the choice, they might sit in one on one day, and the other the next. So you'd still have to keep it immaculate just in case. If you really want a large tank, and a 50/50 set up, then look into a bullfrog or leopard frogs. But be careful, as both of these require a lot of room, and are not really beginner frogs.


<-- Say, can I have some of your purple berries? <--
wjc883
Member
19 posts
19 posts

# Posted: 11 Feb 2004 23:47


well thank you that is a good post, but how many of those do you think i could fit into a 29 gal. longwise with my set up?

Whitney
Moderator
2241 posts
2241 posts

# Posted: 11 Feb 2004 23:53 · Edited by: Whitney


Wow, youre working with a 29 gallon? Well, none of those two. Um, maybe try firebellieds. Let me check some things out...


<-- Say, can I have some of your purple berries? <--
wjc883
Member
19 posts
19 posts

# Posted: 11 Feb 2004 23:54


wait i meant 39 its a 39 gal sorry about that... its pretty big

wjc883
Member
19 posts
19 posts

# Posted: 11 Feb 2004 23:58


haha nvm its 29... but i think it would work with those other froggies its 20 feet long

Whitney
Moderator
2241 posts
2241 posts

# Posted: 12 Feb 2004 00:01


30 1/4 x 12 1/2 x 18 3/4
Those are the dimensions for your tank, right?


<-- Say, can I have some of your purple berries? <--
Frogbert
Moderator
2424 posts
2424 posts

# Posted: 12 Feb 2004 00:04


Whit,

Don't bullfrogs require about 50 Gallons per frog? I thought leopards need 40+, right?


"Lead a life of purpose, Kindness being the first." ME

"The life of the individual has meaning only in so far as it aids in the making the life of every living thing nobeler and more beautiful" Albert Einstein
wjc883
Member
19 posts
19 posts

# Posted: 12 Feb 2004 00:06


its 30 inches long and about a 13 inches deep and a foot across and the barrior that i made for land to water is about 5 inches high

Whitney
Moderator
2241 posts
2241 posts

# Posted: 12 Feb 2004 00:43


*handled on AIM*


<-- Say, can I have some of your purple berries? <--
Frogbert
Moderator
2424 posts
2424 posts

# Posted: 12 Feb 2004 00:47


Have I told you lately?
---YOU ROCK, Whit!


"Lead a life of purpose, Kindness being the first." ME

"The life of the individual has meaning only in so far as it aids in the making the life of every living thing nobeler and more beautiful" Albert Einstein
Whitney
Moderator
2241 posts
2241 posts

# Posted: 12 Feb 2004 00:57



I just try to be like you!


<-- Say, can I have some of your purple berries? <--
wjc883
Member
19 posts
19 posts

# Posted: 12 Feb 2004 04:48


Hey does anyone have any good tips on fire belly toads and their habitat?

Brian
Member
2274 posts
2274 posts

# Posted: 12 Feb 2004 04:55


Well what are you looking for exactly.

I don't know for sure as I don't know that much about them, but I assume those two european firebellied species may able to be mixed as they do live in the same area sometimes. They do produce hybrids though.

The asian species has slighlty different temperture requirements though.

wjc883
Member
19 posts
19 posts

# Posted: 12 Feb 2004 15:43


well mixing would be nice but i am looking to mate them, i have a 29 gal tank that is 20 inches long and 1 foot high and 1 foot wide. i have half water and half land with a glass devider that is about 5 inches high

Brian
Member
2274 posts
2274 posts

# Posted: 12 Feb 2004 19:24


That's another reason you should go for one species tanks.

lostriver
Member
1737 posts
1737 posts

# Posted: 13 Feb 2004 04:32


I'm essentially a non-mixer, but I do have a 135 gallon paludarium where I have successfully mixed dart frogs and tropical fish in the same tank. Dart frogs don't go into the water and the fish don't go onto the land. It was carefully planned and built well ahead of the time of purchasing either the frogs or fish. It's all separated by glass barriers between aquarium and land, with log egress for the frogs if they fall in by accident and have to swim to shore, which they do immediately. The mix is essentially separate in this case, so it works. I would not attempt this with any sort of frog that is even partially aquatic as an adult. The darts are content to do their soaking in the bromeliads and the fish, all small tetras or platys with some algae eateres, are content to stay in their place. It's a mix, but not really a mixture that interferes with each other. I did make one big mistake by introducing some red-clawed crabs into the aquarium portion. These climbed the waterfalls and invaded the land sections, annoying, but not killing the frogs. They ripped up some plants with their excursions. I separated them as soon as I could capture them--which wasn't easy to do.

On the other hand, I wouldn't even consider mixing two different species of dart frogs, let alone mixing them with something that would compete with them in any way. Our artificial habitats are much too small to contain much variety without problems. A miniature rainforest or any other environment we can create in our homes is not miles of terrritory with huge trees and sky high where things can mix together in a vast space and still survive, although not every individual does survive. The same is true with other frogs and reptiles that may live together and have the same requirement for temperature, humidity in the wild vast space. When you confine them to a small terrarium, you force them closer together than they can tolerate. Think about getting shut in a cupboard with your mother in law. I live where there are bears, coyotes, cougars, a few wolves, etc. and we get along just fine. I don't bother them and they don't bother me, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to share a cage with them. If some alien took up a collection from earth and put us all in the same mixed display together in a zoo just because we all shared the same territory, none of us would last long, no matter how well fed or attended.


Lee
Brian
Member
2274 posts
2274 posts

# Posted: 13 Feb 2004 08:46 · Edited by: Brian


Honestly the few species I know that can be mixed are ones people probably wouldn't want or can't tell the difference from anyway (A few Rana, Bufo, etc.) Even then during breeding season you probably want to seperate them.

Even keeping a frog with members of the same species is something you need to be sure about IMO.

I don't know what the big thing is about creating a mixed species tank. I honestly blame pet stores as well as public places/institutions that used to do it.

Whitney
Moderator
2241 posts
2241 posts

# Posted: 13 Feb 2004 14:24 · Edited by: Whitney


It's natural. When I first started, I started with a large tank and two tree frogs. My immediate thought was, "What else can I put it here? That would be so cool!" But once you take the time to learn and care about the animals youre keeping, as well as respect the amazing thing that is nature, you see how unrealistic it is to try to create it in a glass box.


<-- Say, can I have some of your purple berries? <--
Josh
Member
3432 posts3432 posts
# Posted: 13 Feb 2004 18:21


In that size tank, you could have 3 firebellied toads in it, look in the care sheets section of this forum, I belive there is one there. But if you do manage to breed them you will need to have a source of small food ready for them, like pinhead crickets or fruit flies.


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cheshireycat
Member
3789 posts
3789 posts

# Posted: 13 Feb 2004 22:20 · Edited by: cheshireycat


Yeah, good point, Brian. Sometimes, very similar species can be kept together--they won't even know the difference. An example I've heard are Rococco toads and Marine toads, although I really don't know for myself.

The key is EXPERIENCE, though, which is what most people who want to mix just don't have enough of (or tank space, lol).
You have to have the experience to know which exact animals could be used, and how they behave individually and respond between eachother. And those aren't things you can just come online or open a book and read about--those are things you have to study and observe yourself.

But, yeah, it's natural. We all want as interesting a tank as we can have, and a tank that replicates the diversity of nature is also very desirable. But we know it just doesn't work well, we know there are very, very few exceptions. We know this because we keep these animals, and it takes time to learn this.


- Evolution is a theory, not just a fact. -
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