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talk to the frog / General / How long does Chytrid Fungus live without an Amphibian Host?
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Sandy_Bear
Member
1842 posts
1842 posts

# Posted: 31 Mar 2011 23:52


Just wondering how long CF lives without an amphibian host. I've been tearing down all my terrariums and treating all my frogs. I couldn't remember if it was 8 weeks/2 months or 8 months.

My tree frog terrariums have some wood that has been siliconed to the glass and I want to know how long to let it air out for. Since wood is a bit porous, I just wanted to be sure.
I was reading up on wiki, and it sounds like 2-3 months and everything should be kosher.
I know it will die within 4-6 hours of being dry, I'm just not sure how much moisture is in the wood.

Eric Walker
Member
809 posts
809 posts

# Posted: 1 Apr 2011 00:09 · Edited by: Eric Walker


I know this is obvious. Bake the crap out of it anyway. I would say as long as its moist it could survive, host or no host.



Safe not sorry in these cases

AgalychnisCallidryas
Member
942 posts
942 posts

# Posted: 1 Apr 2011 01:13


Batrachochytrium dendrobatadis can survive for up to 24 hours dry at room temperature. Wet, I am not sure, but a long time.


-Liam

3.0.0 Agalychnis callidryas
2.0.0 Litoria caerulea
1.1.0 Rhacodactylus ciliatus
Sandy_Bear
Member
1842 posts
1842 posts

# Posted: 1 Apr 2011 01:35


I know this is obvious. Bake the crap out of it anyway. I would say as long as its moist it could survive, host or no host.
I can't bake these logs, they won't fit in my oven, they are almost 3 feet long and are attached to the tank. Anything that I can bake, will be baked. Everything else is getting a bleach wash. All live plants have also been tossed, well not tossed, they've been donated to a guy that collects plants.

Carlton
Member
653 posts
653 posts

# Posted: 1 Apr 2011 16:44


Bleaching the logs and drying them thoroughly should do it. Maybe you could treat them with one of those hand held steam cleaners then let them dry. The heat should kill it.


"True merit is like a river. The deeper it is the less noise it makes." Edward Frederick Halifax
Amphibians
Member
605 posts
605 posts

# Posted: 1 Apr 2011 17:42


Use a hair dryer? Maybe bleach them in a water solution. Then dry them out.


Glass Frogs
Sandy_Bear
Member
1842 posts
1842 posts

# Posted: 1 Apr 2011 18:34


Use a hair dryer?
lol, I don't have one

Maybe you could treat them with one of those hand held steam cleaners then let them dry.
I think my mom has one of those, I'll have to ask if I may borrow it

Mercedesherp
Member
280 posts
280 posts

# Posted: 1 Apr 2011 19:52


Chytrid can live in pond water over 30 days, in damp earth longer.
When you try to heat sterilize large objects, if you have enough direct sunlight, place them in large contractor size black plastic garbage bags and them place them in full sun. This should work well when done properly.


The psuedo-science of Amphibiology, and the development of Amphibiologists
has begun
Amphibians
Member
605 posts
605 posts

# Posted: 2 Apr 2011 03:34


they do make heat guns that detailers use on cars when applying decals and pinstripping that are much safer to use for longer periods of time


Glass Frogs
K Gorman
Member
4 posts
4 posts

# Posted: 3 Apr 2011 01:11


I've researched this alot recently. On nonporous surfaces greater than 3 hours of complete drying is necessary. Alcohol (70%) for 1 minute will kill Chytrid.

Heat will kill Chytrid on most substrates. Boiling is good for rocks and the like, soil you might want to try baking. It needs to be at 140 degrees for 30 minutes. I'd suggest some inexpensive pots or baking dishes from a thrift shop.

There are alot of other chemicals which will kill Chytrid (quatenary ammonium compound, potassium perganganate, benzolkonium chloride and more) but I am not sure about their toxicity for your frogs.

If your water goes to a water treatment plant that disinfects it, then just flushing it would be sufficient, otherwise boil it before you dump it to keep it friom being spread. Hope it helps

FwoGiZ
Member
1392 posts
1392 posts

# Posted: 3 Apr 2011 04:48


I don't think giving some CF infected plants to some other people is the safest and wisest thing to do Sandy! Correct me if I didn't get what you said!

I think the plastic bag in direct sunkight would work well for huge branches!

I thought CF would die faster from heat than 30min 140degrees!
what is the source of these numbers if i may ask? just out of curiosity
always nice to have more and more specific knowledge bout the big bad CF!



I've had this spring peeper for over 4 years..!
meyers kristina
Member
1484 posts
1484 posts

# Posted: 3 Apr 2011 07:23 · Edited by: meyers kristina


i would throw any plants that you think have been infected and destroyed properly as not to reach others and our ecosystem. Anything down a drain should also be bleached beforehand appropriately. Its the most responsible thing to do before anything goes down a drain.

For the wood, will it fit in the oven? Can't remember if you said yes or no. even if you have to take all shelves out except moving the shelf in the oven to the most bottom part of the stove. Otherwise, black bag sit in sun but I think your in Canada and its gonna be chilly out still so not sure it will get hot enough. Let them dry out is what I would do probably after soaking in bleach, albeit a bathtub or not if its that large. If it really can not be done, then I would discard it appropriately by burning. I do everything not to let chytrid with any possibility leave this home even if i PCR test for it and everyone is neg. I am super careful as we already have a huge problem in this country and we don't need any contributions to it if you know what i mean ;).

hey hairdryers are cheap. lol. wouldn't be a bad idea to grab a cheapo one, but it would take a long time and may not even do it if the center is damp and no way to tell so if it were me, i'd be burning the wood and restarting over. I can fit a lot in my stove so unless its longer than the stove etc it might fit. As stated by the Frogiz even if not for frogs I hope nothing was donated without bleaching etc and even then plants are not worth the risk to me to try to bleach them out. JMHO. much luck Sandy sorry I dont have more answers.

I can't recall all times, but Bd on hands was once noted to be gone after 7 minutes, other non-porous surfaces 24 hrs if dried fully. I do not know in moist environments how long Bd can live without a host anymore, I just take proper precautions

eta: it may not be a bad idea to let it sit in front of a fan or space heater for an extended period of time? some things just may not be worth the risk salvaging sandy tho.


ASN Steward TWI member
K Gorman
Member
4 posts
4 posts

# Posted: 3 Apr 2011 14:25


Sorry about not leaving the sources,
I got most of the info from the Aquatic Animal Health Standards Commission (Australia) September 2010 report. There's a big section on disinfection. The only exception is the alcohol for 1 minute, thats from a herpetologist at the San Diego Zoo.

Sandy_Bear
Member
1842 posts
1842 posts

# Posted: 3 Apr 2011 21:57


I don't think giving some CF infected plants to some other people is the safest and wisest thing to do Sandy! Correct me if I didn't get what you said!
FwoGiZ:
I don't know if I actually have a CF infestation. A guy on Frog Freaks that I was talking to suggested that that may have been the reason my Dwarf Pyxie frogs were dying. Again, I don't know for sure, as I didn't have them tested. My Dwarfs were CB "technicalities" from Mozambique Africa. Being that the are technically a wild caught animal, they could have had any number of problems. I bought 5 of them in August, the pet store imported them in the spring, I had one die on me in September, two died on me last month about 2 days apart from each other, my last female didn't survive the Lamisil Treatment, and my last male is still alive and just finished his Lamisil treatment the other day.

I decided to do a CF Lamisil treatment on all my frogs just to be sure that I didn't accidentally infect any of my other terrariums if that is what it actually was. The plants I gave away were from my FBT, Pacman and tree frogs terrariums.

The guy I gave the plants to doesn't own any frogs. I made sure to ask that. I told him the reason that I was getting rid of the plants and he was fine with that. He collects/hoards house plants. The only pet he has is a dog, and he was thinking about getting a pet mouse.


This is the information that I was reading up on Wiki about CF. This is for a wet (aquarium) environment. Basically if you wait it out for at least 3 months, the fungus will starve and die.

method three

Lastly remove all amphibians from aquarium, vacuum substrate and leave aquarium without amphibians for ~3 months. The fungus needs Keratin to survive and without this it will eventually starve.

http://theaquariumwiki.com/Chytrid_fungus

This page also states:
When an amphibian is seen to be infected, the skin becomes dry, pale and similar to how a frog looks just before a shed of its skin.

My Dwarfs were dry, their back skin was very dark, and they looked like they had multiple layers of stuck shed and were very lethargic. It felt almost like gator skin to me. In most cases, it only took about 2 days for them to get sick and die, sometimes less. Tummy skin looked normal.

Kristina:
The wood does not fit in the oven, they are stuck to the tank:

I have 4 tanks that look basically like this one, 3 are for frogs (WTF, RETF, AGTF), 1 is for my Crested Geckos.
The tanks are 40 gallon Breeders: 36"H x 18"W x 16"L
Three of the tanks have branches cut from my mom's Manitoba Maple Tree, the other has a branch I bought from the pet shop, it was some sort of parrot perch that I altered to put in the tank. The branches from the Maple, are all roughly 36" long.

Otherwise, black bag sit in sun but I think your in Canada and its gonna be chilly out still so not sure it will get hot enough.
Black bagging it is not really feasible for me, it has been snowing all day. I also live in an apartment, there is no balcony, and my land lord will probably try to have me evicted for leaving things out in the yard.
My mom has a clothing steam cleaner called a "Tobi" maybe, anyways, I will ask her to borrow that to clean the wood.

The tanks are also getting washed with bleach & soap, then getting wiped down with windex. All of them are also going to be left empty for a few months.
None of the frogs are going back in any of the terrariums, until they are all treated with Lamisil and all the tanks are cleaned and dried.

FwoGiZ
Member
1392 posts
1392 posts

# Posted: 3 Apr 2011 23:28


I would be scared that the guy you gave the plants would not dispose properly of the infected soil more than for his animals.

It is nice to know CF needs keratin to survive.
is keratin ONLY found in animal skin?



I've had this spring peeper for over 4 years..!
Sandy_Bear
Member
1842 posts
1842 posts

# Posted: 4 Apr 2011 00:58


it's found in frog skin

FwoGiZ
Member
1392 posts
1392 posts

# Posted: 4 Apr 2011 02:14


keratin is indeed found in pretty much any animals, skins, nails, hair or ALL types
now chitin is very closely similar to keratin and guess what; chytrid also "feed" on it!

we all know a few hours of complete dryness will kill it, a few minutes of intense warmth too, and many chemicals such as bleach, alcohol and meds like itri, lamisil, etc
other than that, this very primitive fungi isnt very much known so there are a lot more questions that would come to my mind such as how much chitin/keratin would it need to last "X" monthes?

to top it off, it is known that chytrid can also infect corn, lucerne and potatoes which is an important pathogenes so who knows what else it can infect via plants?


you cant be too careful regarding chytrid if you ask me... it has done already too many massacres so lets all be careful!



I've had this spring peeper for over 4 years..!
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