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talk to the frog / General / Chytrid...the fungus among us
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Darren
Member
13 posts
13 posts

# Posted: 28 Jun 2008 12:38


Sorry but just what was mentioned at the BIAZA RAWG meeting by staff from Jersey Zoo, can't remember name of woman off top of head but she is one of the senior herp keepers at the Zoo.

BullfrogGreg
Member
1694 posts
1694 posts

# Posted: 2 Jul 2008 06:35


There were a lot of posts and im not sure if this was asked but does this treatment pose any danger to my frog? Could it hurt him?

BIG HYDRO
Member
3666 posts
3666 posts

# Posted: 2 Jul 2008 06:36


No



Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius, and its better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.
Casey Caudill
Member
370 posts
370 posts

# Posted: 2 Jul 2008 06:42


thx steve

BIG HYDRO
Member
3666 posts
3666 posts

# Posted: 2 Jul 2008 06:43 · Edited by: BIG HYDRO


Sorry to be a pain but can you quote a published reference or a name?


I found this but it doesn't say they don't pick up the fungus, only that laytex can be toxic to tads and embryos.
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wld/documents/wldhealth/B C%20Protocol%20-%20Amphibian%20field%20researchers %202008.pdf



Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius, and its better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.
BullfrogGreg
Member
1694 posts
1694 posts

# Posted: 2 Jul 2008 06:52


should we sterilize the tanks in any more special way than just bleach?

Steven Busch
Member
1089 posts
1089 posts

# Posted: 2 Jul 2008 06:58


Bleach water works fine.

We are waiting on results of a controled experiment of 4 species of frogs, 15 or so animals per group, infected, tested, treated, tested, reinfected, cured, retested. The results of this and previous testing will then be published.


Steve Busch
Yoncalla Frog
steve@yoncallafrog.com
www.buschcustomknives.blademakers.com
www.yoncallafrog.com .......soon I hope
Darren
Member
13 posts
13 posts

# Posted: 2 Jul 2008 11:27


Found article at last, very interesting!
Part on nitrile gloves is on page 23

http://www.jcu.edu.au/rainforest/publications/amph ibian_disease.pdf

and here is link to Amphibian Diseases homepage with what looks like some very good information

http://www.jcu.edu.au/school/phtm/PHTM/frogs/ampdi s.htm

seem like reliable source.

BullfrogGreg
Member
1694 posts
1694 posts

# Posted: 3 Jul 2008 00:07


If we do this treatment on like say a baby horned frog that has no symptoms, we shouldn't have to do it again?

BullfrogGreg
Member
1694 posts
1694 posts

# Posted: 3 Jul 2008 00:09


and also i am seconds away from starting this on my baby pacman frog, is there any reason i shouldn't?

BIG HYDRO
Member
3666 posts
3666 posts

# Posted: 3 Jul 2008 00:14


nope



Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius, and its better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.
Zach Valois
Member
96 posts
96 posts

# Posted: 9 Jul 2008 06:27 · Edited by: Zach Valois


Well, my heck what an overwhelming issue. Sounds like some problems I have been having are indeed CF. How upsetting. The worst part is that I had no idea how common and widespread it was in CAPTIVITY. I have been keeping anurans since I was a small child and am now beginning to be plagued with mysterious deaths. In the past couple years, since I specialize in terrestrial invertebrates and have been busy with school I have only kept a few amphibians at a time with no problems. But recently I have had the desire to build a larger collection. And all of a sudden I thought my skills as a herptoculturist were dwindling. So that is a relief in itself. But all of a sudden I'm simply overwhelmed by this issue and have no choice but to keep my number of amphibians to an absolute minimum.
I'm simply too busy with school and research (currently working as an undergrad with scorpion ecology and phylogenetics). How disheartening.

My main concern now is
1) protecting the rest of my collection 2) preventing further infections 3)finding out where this came from to my collection.

It either came from locally collected R. catesbiana (non-native here in Utah), some B. halophilus tadpoles that came in with some feeder goldfish at my work (I manage a fish hatchery) from Fresno, CA, or a recent shipment of frogs i got from Glades Herps in Florida. Now I'm learning that African dwarf frogs are carrying it too! I have thousands go through my hands at work and we have been experiencing increase mortality rate for no apparent reason.

Interestling enough I just found this article saying that bullfrogs are often silent carriers. Although in the past few weeks I have lost four big healthy adults. I have a friend who also has some bullfrogs collected from the same area that are just fine so far. If it is indeed CF it affected them fast, within about three-four weeks.
Temps have been hot here in Utah and I would think that 76-78 F weather would stress them out. Although high ammonia levels and a open cage without a lot of cover might.
Please see this post.

http://talkto.thefrog.org/index.php?action=vthread &forum=4&topic=16330

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5008940. stm

Here are some questions I would like help with.

1:

So I like to do a lot of field photography. What is the best way to clean my boots and waders between sites? Will the fungus still be able to live once the waders have dried for days?

2:

Can this pathogen only spread via water? Or should I be worried about airborne spreading?

3:

Who can do the cheapest PCR test for CF?

4:

Anyone know of records of CF in Utah or where or whom I can obtain such information? I want to help any way I can, in addition to raising public awareness. This absolutely needs to be conveyed to the average frog
keeper and herper. I could easily see this being transfered to native populations here in Utah via captive exposure. I even know of some people who have re released specimens of B. woodhousi (good intention).



Steve, is there any way you might be able to post some photos of your general style of caging for these animals and the room(s) in which you keep them. My interest is mostly in North American frogs (Bufo sp., Rana sp, Pseudacris sp. etc.). I want more ideas on simple setups that are easier to control disease in.


Zachary J. Valois
Salt Lake City, Utah.
OutLanderInverts@yahoo.com

"Only Hobbyists can eliminate the demand for wild caught animals"
Steven Busch
Member
1089 posts
1089 posts

# Posted: 9 Jul 2008 07:20


Boots and nets and other tools--bleach I will reconfirm with our herpetologist who is in the field too much what he uses. I think it is 1 cup to 5 or 10 gallons.

Chytrid is everywhere so the source is not all that important. It lives in mud, on turtles, ducks etc. The bull frog is suspected to be a major reason for the US spread of chytrid.

Chytrid needs water to live and actually does better in the 60's and dies above 100.

I do not keep rana's or bufo's as they are not legal in Oregon.





We finally got some results back. These were histology exams. We are still waiting on the PCR tests that are due back 7/25 or so. Of the 14 species that had histology results, 4 were confirmed positive. The remainder were inconclusive. Of the 4 positives, 3 were captive bred animals from 3 different breeders and the 4th was an import from China.


Steve Busch
Yoncalla Frog
steve@yoncallafrog.com
www.buschcustomknives.blademakers.com
www.yoncallafrog.com .......soon I hope
Xiaf717
Member
14 posts
14 posts

# Posted: 13 Jul 2008 18:55 · Edited by: Xiaf717


Just got a new baby ornate who ate the first night he was here, but I want to make sure I never have a problem with CF.

He was put directly into a 5gal on paper towels in preparation of the lamisil treatment. Can I take him out and do the treatment, then wipe out the same tank real quick with water/wiping it with fresh paper towels everytime? put in new clean paper towels and at the end of the treatment wash it out with bleach. or would it be too contaminated to keep him in for the treatment because hes already been in it untreated for 3 nights.

kimix
Member
551 posts
551 posts

# Posted: 27 Jul 2008 16:23


During the past two days I have finally sat down and read every single thread and post on Chytrid and will be starting to treat my frogs today.

My few final questions are..

1) what is the best way to disinfect your hands? I saw carton mention hes rinsing his hands in bleach solution, any other?

2) Do you know the lifespan of the fungus on dry surfaces? I'm wondering if i should re disinfect all my spare reptile deco and bowls I have stored, just in case, and if all my stuff in my lizard cages should be disinfected as well... When I do water bowls every night, theres a high possibly I touched a frog bowl, then a lizard bowl. Can it now be lurking on dry surfaces, then end up reinfecting my frogs?


Kim Klisiak
My Pet List - http://www.thetoepad.com/pets.php
kimix
Member
551 posts
551 posts

# Posted: 27 Jul 2008 16:24


3) and theres no reason why I can't sterilize my dirt by soaking it in bleach water right? I don't want to reuse it, just make it safe to throw away


Kim Klisiak
My Pet List - http://www.thetoepad.com/pets.php
Stuart Halliday
Member
32 posts
32 posts

# Posted: 27 Jul 2008 20:05


Why not simply put it into an oven at 100C+?

CF dies above 35C.
So at 100C an hour should do it nicely.


Stuart Halliday
The Aquarium Wiki Encyclopaedia
Stuart Halliday
Member
32 posts
32 posts

# Posted: 27 Jul 2008 20:19 · Edited by: Stuart Halliday



1) what is the best way to disinfect your hands? I saw carton mention hes rinsing his hands in bleach solution, any other?


Put them under a hot dryer for 2-3 mins?

Buy some alcohol based no-soap, no-water solution?
I use a Hand hygiene gel on my hands with my aquariums.
Commonly available from any Chemist.

You've read this I assume? :
http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/CF#Links

One of the papers there goes into great detail on the transfer of CF via the hand and how you can limit it.


2) Do you know the lifespan of the fungus on dry surfaces?

See above link.It's all there.


Stuart Halliday
The Aquarium Wiki Encyclopaedia
kimix
Member
551 posts
551 posts

# Posted: 27 Jul 2008 23:50


I cant put it in oven b/c i live with my parents and they don't share my concern about the need to sterilize my dirt. There was a bit of a scuffle just about me baking my leaves to sterilize them.

I had started to read that link but I guess I didn't finish, I shall check it out, thanx.


Kim Klisiak
My Pet List - http://www.thetoepad.com/pets.php
Stuart Halliday
Member
32 posts
32 posts

# Posted: 28 Jul 2008 21:56


That's a shame. I can understand their view point however.

A lot of people do have an irrational fear of dirt contaminating their area even when you point out the item is within another container.

I just don't tell my wife what I've got in the bottom of the freezer...


Any hot weather in your area that perhaps goes over 35C?


Stuart Halliday
The Aquarium Wiki Encyclopaedia
Rob Gladstone
Member
15 posts
15 posts

# Posted: 2 Oct 2008 06:19


OMG.Are all species, such as fire bellies suseptible to this fungus, and can reptiles contract this fungus also?

Carlton
Member
653 posts
653 posts

# Posted: 2 Oct 2008 17:31


All amphibians are at risk. The original source for the fungus was an aquatic...the African clawed frog. I don't think any reptile species have been affected. Chytrid is an aquatic organism so needs moisture and lower temperatures to be more active. Most reptiles would reach a body temp high enough to kill it off generally. I don't know if a reptile from a humid environment could carry the fungus on its skin and be a carrier even if the fungus didn't harm the reptile.


"True merit is like a river. The deeper it is the less noise it makes." Edward Frederick Halifax
Derek Benson
Member
3608 posts
3608 posts

# Posted: 2 Oct 2008 18:03


I was talking with a guy that keeps lots of newts and salamanders and although he mentioned it wasnt as big of a risk yet for them yet, it will be in the future and they have already taken precautions.

He said instead of bleach, they are using h2o2 (hydrogen peroxide) and vinegar. I guess the difference in pH heightens the effect of the h2o2 and is much easier to clean than trying to rid of bleach residue. Anyone else have experience with this?


Derek Benson - Phyllomedusa/Hyperolius Enthusiast
Amooliakin
Member
30 posts
30 posts

# Posted: 17 Oct 2008 02:56


Just to let you all know.... we used the Lamisil solution per the instrucitons on the post and Dimple really seemed to be getting better - though still not eating. He was more active and he shed and his color was good. But then we found him dead one day. My daughter was very sad.... I'm hoping we can get another frog but I don't know what to do differently next time around. We really tried to get it all right....

Frogger101
Member
356 posts
356 posts

# Posted: 31 Oct 2008 06:55


Has anyone ever treated there reptiles, new tanks, wood etc... from pet stores, shows so not to spread the disease in their amphibian colony?


15.15.0 Proven Breeder Blue White's
0.0.31 Sub-adult Blue White's
1.3.0 Indonesian White's
2.1.0 Blue Webbed Flying
0.0.12 Waxy Monkey Tree Frog
5.4.0 Adult Red Eyes
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Carlton
Member
653 posts
653 posts

# Posted: 31 Oct 2008 17:19


If the tanks or supplies from a herp supply are new and unused I just rinse them in very hot water to remove any dirt or chemical residues. Newly packaged supplies that have been stored, warehoused, shipped, and on a shop shelf for weeks are probably much too dried out to have active chytrid on them. I do treat everything I throw outdoors (old leaves, substrate, terrarium water) with bleach water so I don't spread it though I know chytrid has been documented on boreal toads in our local area. I don't feed my frogs anything caught locally, nor do I use local soil, leaves, branches, etc.

As for getting the word out about chytrid in captive populations, I've given information (symptoms, occurrance, treatment) to my local pet supply, my vets, and anyone else I know who keeps amphibians. I think a major action to take would be to contact the organizers and/or sponsors of all the herp shows and have them spread the word to any of the vendors who will be bringing amphibians. Even if they don't require treatment before the animals could be brought to the show or sold, the information should at least be given to buyers. After all, what better way to get rid of chytrid than during quarantine of a newly purchased frog!


"True merit is like a river. The deeper it is the less noise it makes." Edward Frederick Halifax
Frogger101
Member
356 posts
356 posts

# Posted: 1 Nov 2008 13:18


So do you know if CF has been found on reptiles, either dormant or active?


15.15.0 Proven Breeder Blue White's
0.0.31 Sub-adult Blue White's
1.3.0 Indonesian White's
2.1.0 Blue Webbed Flying
0.0.12 Waxy Monkey Tree Frog
5.4.0 Adult Red Eyes
0.0.5 Baby Red Eyes
1.0.0 Redleg Wa
Renee
Member
13 posts
13 posts

# Posted: 12 Nov 2008 15:31


A question about cleaning the tank and plants - I know for a fact that the lovely plants and tall grass I have in my tank is not going to survive bleach or being boiled, can I just bleach the tank itself ,put the plants back in and heat up the tank to above 35C?

Also, is it okay to treat all 5 of my frogs together? (It would be a lot easier)

I also have no idea how you guys do this so easily, my frogs jump all over the place, goodness knows where I'm going to find another tank to keep them in,let alone be able to move them every day while doing this treatment for ten days, they're so fiesty!

BIG HYDRO
Member
3666 posts
3666 posts

# Posted: 12 Nov 2008 22:20


No it's not ok. You MUST treat the plants and EVERYTHING in the tank. Why do you think that the plants won't survive? Everyone elses have survived the bleach treatment. It's not like it is full strength. Unless you have something extremely delicate, they should be just fine if you follow the directions.

You don't have to have another tank, you can use a small plastic bin or tuppwerware container.



Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius, and its better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.
Stuart Halliday
Member
32 posts
32 posts

# Posted: 12 Nov 2008 22:31


Heat is heat.
CF dies above a certain temperature ~35C. Why bother removing items from the tank and bleaching it?

Let the heat do the work.


Stuart Halliday
The Aquarium Wiki Encyclopaedia
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