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talk to the frog / Breeders and Deals / White, black eyed southern toad.
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NeoReptiliac
Member
15 posts
15 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 06:55 · Edited by: NeoReptiliac


I come across this toad and was told to keep it. I was going to release it back after taking some pictures but was told that it wouldn't make it long with its white pigmentation and that it was something special to not release only to have die to a predator. So here I am with this toad that I'm not really sure what to do with. Its really neat looking and a good conversation piece but I think that it might be better in the hands of an experienced amphibian breeder who can put it to good use by trying to breed the gene out. Its hard to decide if I want to part with it at all or not however. Its quite cute and makes a really nice sound at night for me since Ive had it. If I did decide to sell this what would everyone think would be a fair price to ask for it?



NeoReptiliac
Member
15 posts
15 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 06:58


Excuse its dirtiness, it likes to burrow in the peat moss I use for bedding.

Rick Cabrera
Member
155 posts
155 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 08:15


That is a really cool loking frog. Im not into toads myself but i would think people would pay good money for that.

I would give it to a breeder who would breed them and let you have some of the offspring, that way you end up with more of them and have some to learn to breed yourself.


2 Red eyes, 1 albino red eye, 3 Bumble bee Dart frogs, 2 Green and Black Auratus
Jay Willis
Member
1465 posts
1465 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 08:38


Where did You find this? What state are You in?

I deal alot with southern toads, and do a little breeding for repopulation purposeses only.

I would love to have this toad!! I don't know how much Your asking for it, but I don't have much money to spend, but I may have something to trade!!!!!

spawn
Member
2553 posts
2553 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 09:04


The unfortunate problem is these toads have been popping up on KS in the last year and people asking $200+ for them because they think they are the coolest things since fried chicken. It'd be an abomination to ask for anything more than $100 shipped for this animal in my opinion.


I come across this toad and was told to keep it. I was going to release it back after taking some pictures but was told that it wouldn't make it long with its white pigmentation and that it was something special to not release only to have die to a predator. So here I am with this toad that I'm not really sure what to do with.

Not that it's not cool you have an all-white toad, but I can't grant you credence for your reasoning to keep it. You came across an adult toad in the wild, yet let someone tell you the animal wouldn't make it in the wild because it doesn't have the cryptic coloring its siblings might? Then how does one explain how the toad came to be in your possession in the first place?

Hint: the toad was not born at an adult size. It might theoretically be at a greater risk to predation, but who's to say you're doing it a favor? I don't buy into this playing nature/God mindset. If you just wanted to keep the toad 'cuz it's cool, then yeah, I'm all for it. But to say you're doing the toad a favor in any way is patronizing to nature's ecosystems (assuming of course that it's even feasible to patronize an inanimate entity such as nature in the first place).

Jay Willis
Member
1465 posts
1465 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 09:17


Yeah, it has made it this long, so it has done just fine. no to mention that if it were to reproduce, the chances the any of the offspring were to look like this are slim to none, unless the other sex looked just like it.

I just want it because it is not a normal southern toad, and would look nice in the collection!!!

NeoReptiliac
Member
15 posts
15 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 09:34


Where did You find this? What state are You in?

I deal alot with southern toads, and do a little breeding for repopulation purposeses only.

I would love to have this toad!! I don't know how much Your asking for it, but I don't have much money to spend, but I may have something to trade!!!!!



Hi there. I'm still pondering over selling it or not. I have no idea what to ask honestly. And I'm not sure I should trade it for anything. I'm very tight on cage space as it is with two pairs of my snakes about to lay eggs.
I live in Tennessee. Found it at my brother's place in north Georgia however. Which is about 40 miles from me. I will think over giving it to you since you are doing a good deed with repopulating if I happen to get rid of him.

Derek Benson
Member
3608 posts
3608 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 09:34


looks leucistic, very cool


Derek Benson - Phyllomedusa/Hyperolius Enthusiast
NeoReptiliac
Member
15 posts
15 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 09:40


The unfortunate problem is these toads have been popping up on KS in the last year and people asking $200+ for them because they think they are the coolest things since fried chicken. It'd be an abomination to ask for anything more than $100 shipped for this animal in my opinion.


I come across this toad and was told to keep it. I was going to release it back after taking some pictures but was told that it wouldn't make it long with its white pigmentation and that it was something special to not release only to have die to a predator. So here I am with this toad that I'm not really sure what to do with.

Not that it's not cool you have an all-white toad, but I can't grant you credence for your reasoning to keep it. You came across an adult toad in the wild, yet let someone tell you the animal wouldn't make it in the wild because it doesn't have the cryptic coloring its siblings might? Then how does one explain how the toad came to be in your possession in the first place?

Hint: the toad was not born at an adult size. It might theoretically be at a greater risk to predation, but who's to say you're doing it a favor? I don't buy into this playing nature/God mindset. If you just wanted to keep the toad 'cuz it's cool, then yeah, I'm all for it. But to say you're doing the toad a favor in any way is patronizing to nature's ecosystems (assuming of course that it's even feasible to patronize an inanimate entity such as nature in the first place).



First off I would like to say I really don't like your attitude. Out of my whole post about how I liked he frog, how I wasn't sure I would even get rid of it in the first place. How I was worried about a predator getting it in the wild. The only thing you could think of was insulting me about playing god? Sure think about it that way if you like. But honestly. If you found this toad, would you consider just letting it go after thinking about it? Take an animal like this and leave it in the wild and it wont last long. How it got this old in the first place is just as much an enigma as its color. Why do you think there isn't many out there? Cause they usually don't make it past tadpole stage. If I sat this frog down outside and said "Be free! Live in nature!" I bet you within 10 minutes it would be a toy for a cat. Now I could go do that, or I could try to give it a safe home, well fed, fresh water and all that nice jazz now that I have found it. Or someone else can if I ever get pressured into selling it. Call that "playing god" all you like. I don't care. But don't come in here treating me like some jerk when you don't even know me.

ThePyxieKidd
Member
77 posts
77 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 09:42


That's a very cool looking toad. I would just release it, It did live to adult size on it's own anyhow.


Jay Willis
Member
1465 posts
1465 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 10:01


As much as I am honored and willing to take the frog, I just want You to know that there is a good chance i will not breed this one, unless it is a female. It is very hard to find females around here, believe it or not.

By all means, if Your looking for a good chunk of money(which You can get), I'm sure someone will pay. But if You really want to give it to someone who know how to care fo the toad, I should really be on that list!!!

If You want a price, I would say You can get anywhere between 100 and 200 easy, but if You charge that I can't pay. My wife is still not sure of all My late night studying, filming, and researching I have been doing during the breeding season, not to mention all the frogs I already house. There is now way I can pay that price!!!

BIG HYDRO
Member
3666 posts
3666 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 10:14


Take an animal like this and leave it in the wild and it wont last long.
If I sat this frog down outside and said "Be free! Live in nature!" I bet you within 10 minutes it would be a toy for a cat

I think you missed his point. If you think it wouldn't last for 10 minutes, then how did it grow to be an adult? As far as playing God goes, I doubt he meant you were literally trying to create a world in 7 days. He only means that it is nature's course, so why not let it run it's course on it's own. Most people don't agree with taking them out of nature as pets, especially as an adult because they tend to not do so well in captivity.

That being said, I think you should send it to Jay for the cost of shipping. He breeds these guys, has a private pond for them, and definitely knows what he is doing with these toads.


No matter what you decide to do with it, you have a very cool looking toad to deal with.



Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius, and its better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.
ILoveGreen
Member
4190 posts
4190 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 14:24


If you found this toad, would you consider just letting it go after thinking about it? Take an animal like this and leave it in the wild and it wont last long

Hmmm I would think about keeping it too. Not selling it to make a profit..which really doesn't sound like this guy is trying to do. If you are really worried about the toad maybe call the local zoo....they might have a big enclosure for him

It's the same case with my Blue Bullfrog and no one jumped down my throat for that!


Lisa http://www.reptilegeeks.com/ILoveGreen
1.1 Blue Morph Bullfrogs
0.0.2 Mossy Frogs
1.1 Bearded Dragons +
2.6 Leopard Geckos
0.1 Corn Snakes
1 Rat Terrior/Chihuahua dog
+ 1 toddler girl!:)
Nebuchadnezza
Member
569 posts
569 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 18:31


I would keep it, it's a rare colour.

Just like Lisa has her blue bullfrog, it will be a unique toad to have.
keep this one or give it to someone who can breed it.


I just can't find the words.
NeoReptiliac
Member
15 posts
15 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 19:06


I think you missed his point. If you think it wouldn't last for 10 minutes, then how did it grow to be an adult? As far as playing God goes, I doubt he meant you were literally trying to create a world in 7 days. He only means that it is nature's course, so why not let it run it's course on it's own. Most people don't agree with taking them out of nature as pets, especially as an adult because they tend to not do so well in captivity.

That being said, I think you should send it to Jay for the cost of shipping. He breeds these guys, has a private pond for them, and definitely knows what he is doing with these toads.


No matter what you decide to do with it, you have a very cool looking toad to deal with.



Well I understand it may be hard to believe but what I say is true. I can give you an idea of what would happen easily.. I got this toad from my brother's back yard. He had a pool that was empty cept for some rain water and leaves. Thats where we found it. He lives 40 miles or so from me. And he knows nothing about taking care of any animals so gladly let me take it. Now I on the other hand live near the city. Right next to a busy road. And have only a back yard that is fenced in to house this toad if I let it go. On the other hand I have 6 cats and the neighbors have lots of cats too. I regularly find at lease one cridder on my front porch dead every day. Every day.... Birds, rodents, skinks... you get the picture? My brother is going to be cleaning out that pool soon so he can use it. So its habitat is gone.

lestat
Member
1376 posts
1376 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 19:48


I talked to NeoReptiliac for quite a while in a chat room last night and sent her here. I think something that people lose sight of quite regularly is that a new person to the forum is not necessarily clueless about reptiles and amphibians.

I mistakenly directed her to post in this section, thinking she wanted to sell it, then found out after she'd posted that she was mostly just curious about what it's worth at this point. So go ahead and blame me if you gotta be hostile.

As I said last night, NeoReptiliac, I'd love to have it as well, but if you still want to keep it, I'd be happy to help you make sure its in the right set up. Also, get on the chat room sometime this weekend so I can give you my email address. This forum doesn't have a PM feature.



"This is a forum, not a cell phone."
ILoveGreen
Member
4190 posts
4190 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 20:06


If that Toad was a resonable price I would buy it too! I think it'll have a much better/longer life in the right captive conditions.


Lisa http://www.reptilegeeks.com/ILoveGreen
1.1 Blue Morph Bullfrogs
0.0.2 Mossy Frogs
1.1 Bearded Dragons +
2.6 Leopard Geckos
0.1 Corn Snakes
1 Rat Terrior/Chihuahua dog
+ 1 toddler girl!:)
frogfan
Member
752 posts
752 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 20:11


there is a reason we don't see too many mutations that make it to the adult stage. they do stick out and are easy prey for many animals. This one may have just been lucky so far, or maybe it was somebody's pet that got released. saying "it lived this long, so i'm sure it'll live a long happy life" is a poor argument. carrying a leucistic/albino mutation is not advantageous.

spawn
Member
2553 posts
2553 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 20:24


Keeping a cool looking frog is awesome and all, and I'd probably keep it if I were in your situation too. That's not my point. My point is people should be held responsible for what they say, and what you said does NOT make sense, and I'm calling you out on it. Apparently people who do NOT agree with you don't matter as much as those who are willing to shell out a dollar, eh? But since apparently you don't know how to interpret my comments of "playing God", my point is, your argument for "saving" the frog from the busy road and cats and whatever other trivial things you mentioned is about as sound reasoning as me going outside without my bugspray so the mosquitoes get a clean bite on me, because they too are animals of the world and need food. Except that I forgot to mention that I don't like being bitten by mosquitoes, and you forgot to mention that the toad did quite fine up until the time you snatched it.

Why save the toad to begin with? What about the thousands of cellular algae growing in your brother's rundown pool? Do those not matter because they aren't a glowing white spectacle of a biological anomaly you thought was pretty?

You've done noone a favor but yourself. That's my point. No problem with keeping or selling cool critters, but I certainly wouldn't lie to myself and say I did anyone a favor except myself.

NeoReptiliac
Member
15 posts
15 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 20:31


My brother keeps chickens and regularly puts out moth balls to keep snakes away. It probably made it this long in the wild cause it stayed all its life in that mostly empty pool hidden in the leaves. It wouldnt last too long in my back yard or any other back yard or forest. Expecially since it would be a foren place for it. That would be like putting you in a town that you never visited and asking you to find your way around with out trouble. But honestly any of us that keep any sort of animal or breed any sort of animal in a way is trying to recreate nature. I dont find anything wrong with this. And neither should you if you are one of these people.

NeoReptiliac
Member
15 posts
15 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 20:37


If I did no one a favor then let me ask you this.

If the people that found various albino morphs of wild snakes that we now keep as pets didn't keep them when they found them. Would we have the privilege of enjoying these animals in our own homes?

In no way possible could I help just myself by keeping this frog and not tossing it back into the wild. By keeping it I am helping I believe. Cause if I didn't keep it then we may never see another like this again. We could but odds are we wont. I may even come across another. A sibling perhaps. Then what?

My point is, everything starts with something. And if you just leave it up to nature to handle everything the way god intended then we would have already wiped out everything that was special in the animal kingdom. Cause the fact is, we make a lot of messes and its our responsibility to clean them up.

jeanette
Member
452 posts
452 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 22:28 · Edited by: jeanette


I think this is one of those posts that is a case of misunderstanding.
NeoReptiliac if you are serious about saving this frog then all you have to to do is decide if your keeping it or not, It is true that albinos dont always fair well in nature, but that isnt to say they cant survive.
This frog is very cool and very fascinating it would be very cool to keep in a collection but i would not pay $200 for it, this is a WC frog and is likely to have parasites, theres a possibility of CF and as its an adult it might not adjust to captive life.
You need to decide wether you can keep it............and we are not just talking about vivarium space, its a case of do you have the correct knowledge to treat an amphibian that might carry CF and parasites can you give it an adequate quality of life and if the answer is no, then are you willing to learn?
If not are you willing to sell the frog for a wad of cash, knowing that if the frog dies due to poor health then you are responsible and cash is going to have to be paid back. If however you are willing to give it to someone else will you find a home where the person is experienced in frog husbandry and can give it everything it needs.
Im not being negative here, im ..............playing devils advocate, if you like.
i hate the idea of frogs not getting the attention and care they need and they shouldnt just be sold to the highest bidder.


jen

Oh My.......... she didnt , did she?
MegophryidaeMan
Member
2535 posts
2535 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 22:32


Neoreptiliac is an experienced herp keeper. I think that she will learn quickly what it takes to keep the toad.

It's a very cool looking toad for sure! What a find!!!


jeanette
Member
452 posts
452 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 22:39


Neoreptiliac is an experienced herp keeper. I think that she will learn quickly what it takes to keep the toad.

It's a very cool looking toad for sure! What a find!!!

well i dont see the problem in her keeping it then, i agree its a very cool guy


jen

Oh My.......... she didnt , did she?
spawn
Member
2553 posts
2553 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 22:45 · Edited by: spawn


I'm not going to rebut the other things you said because it's flawed logic and I said what needed to be said.

The unfortunate problem is these toads have been popping up on KS in the last year and people asking $200+ for them because they think they are the coolest things since fried chicken.

Remember this part that you quoted from me? That signifies the toad isn't as rare as you're making it out to be.

frogfan
Member
752 posts
752 posts

# Posted: 7 Jun 2008 23:18 · Edited by: frogfan


just to butt in, i think this arguement is petty and unneccasary. also, i wouldn't be surprised if this was a pet and then was relased/escaped. I remember someone breeding these a couple years ago and they were all over. It would be pretty odd/rare for that toad to be naturally born and survived this long, let alone you finding it. Not saying it couldn't happen though.

NeoReptiliac
Member
15 posts
15 posts

# Posted: 8 Jun 2008 00:44


Neoreptiliac is an experienced herp keeper. I think that she will learn quickly what it takes to keep the toad.


Thanks. Its true its not my first herp or amphibian. I kept a tree frog (wild caught) for 2 years when I was younger. I learned over the years of my life. I have tons of reptiles currently and as soon as I got inside with this guy and took a couple pictures I started looking online instantly for information. I went into various reptile chat rooms as well as amphibian chat rooms Posted on a few forums. Asking for advice and information. Right now the toad is properly set up and eating crickets. It seems to be a healthy little guy and having no problem adjusting to captivity. It sings at night and hasn't turned down a meal yet. I'm sure I'm capable of caring for him or her properly.

NeoReptiliac
Member
15 posts
15 posts

# Posted: 8 Jun 2008 00:46


I'm not going to rebut the other things you said because it's flawed logic and I said what needed to be said.

The unfortunate problem is these toads have been popping up on KS in the last year and people asking $200+ for them because they think they are the coolest things since fried chicken.

Remember this part that you quoted from me? That signifies the toad isn't as rare as you're making it out to be.


Good it isn't rare, according to you. However I haven't seen any yet. Perhaps I might come across another if its not so rare. Really I don't care any more at this point. Its unique in my opinion. You might get farther if you stop being so negative and take that thorn out of your back side.

lestat
Member
1376 posts
1376 posts

# Posted: 8 Jun 2008 01:41


If he's calling, it's male, Neo.

It's sad that I can't direct people to this forum for information without them getting attacked.



"This is a forum, not a cell phone."
spawn
Member
2553 posts
2553 posts

# Posted: 8 Jun 2008 05:15 · Edited by: spawn


Nevermind. Delete this.

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